Voter ID laws are common sense

Another interesting fact, in CO for some reason republicans love mail in ballots while the democrats tend to lean towards voting at the polls (whether early voting or election day voting).
 
evince said:
Maybe they dont trust the people who count the votes in CO
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Can you point to a reason? They have their own appointed party reps as judges.

I think it is because statistically they help republicans win.

Anyway, I personally don't like mail in ballots because of how easily it would be for me to go around the verification process with mail in ballots.

Let me give you just one example of what could be done... (and no rootbeer I don't have stats of this, it is something that could be, not something I know has been done.)

Let's say I was an abusive husband, who wanted to control how my wife voted. If I register for mail in ballots, each time we received them I could ensure she either filled it out the way I want or I could just force her to sign the envelope and fill it out myself...

Now if I had to go to the polls I could ensure she voted but I could not ensure she voted how I wanted her to, as I would even be unable to hover and watch...

I don't like a system of voting that can be so easily circumvented any more than I like one that cannot be checked (paperless machines).
 
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\\(())// said:
So you have no statistics to support your argument.
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Again, an opinion is not an argument. I posted an opinion in response to somebody asking me what my opinion was. Do you ever do that?

(I'll also note that you continue to ignore the fact that it would be impossible to collect data because it is illegal to ask for it.)

Do you often demand that others provide information that would be illegal to collect?

And lastly:

Do you believe that my opinion is unreasonable, especially when I point out extremely easy ways to circumvent the verification in mail in balloting?
 
Damocles said:
Again, an opinion is not an argument. I posted an opinion in response to somebody asking me what my opinion was. Do you ever do that? (I'll also note that you continue to ignore the fact that it would be impossible to collect data because it is illegal to ask for it.) Do you often demand that others provide information that would be illegal to collect? And lastly: Do you believe that my opinion is unreasonable, especially when I point out extremely easy ways to circumvent the verification in mail in balloting?
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How is it "illegal to collect data because it is illegal to ask for it"?
 
\\(())// said:
How is it "illegal to collect data because it is illegal to ask for it"?
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Again, I've pointed it out several times, it is illegal to ask for further verification. Simple as that. In order to collect the data you want statistics for one would have to break those laws, the courts have ruled that it is a violation of rights, the democrats argue that even an attempt to collect the data is an attempt to "suppress the vote"...

It is illegal to attempt to collect the data that could provide the statistics you would like.
 
Damocles said:
Again, I've pointed it out several times, it is illegal to ask for further verification. Simple as that. In order to collect the data you want statistics for one would have to break those laws, the courts have ruled that it is a violation of rights, the democrats argue that even an attempt to collect the data is an attempt to "suppress the vote"...It is illegal to attempt to collect the data that could provide the statistics you would like.
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Cite the statute(s) that "make it illegal", please.
 
\\(())// said:
Cite the statute(s) that "make it illegal", please.
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This is in direct relation to my work as an election judge.

I'm not sure of the C.R.S. numbers that directly relate to it, however the law is specific as to what type of identification I can use at the polls. One of them is literally a copy of a utility bill. Any request for further identification for verification is illegal.

I'll have to look up which of the rulings are relevant, but many of those adjustments are for rulings meted against states' laws that used other forms of identification and are directly relevant to the "voter ID laws" that some states try to pass.
 
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Damocles said:
This is in direct relation to my work as an election judge. I'm not sure of the C.R.S. numbers that directly relate to it, however the law is specific as to what type of identification I can use at the polls. One of them is literally a copy of a utility bill. Any request for further identification for verification is illegal. I'll have to look up which of the rulings are relevant, but many of those adjustments are for rulings meted against states' laws that used other forms of identification and are directly relevant to the "voter ID laws" that some states try to pass.
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So the answer is that you're "not sure".
 
Damocles said:
Of specific CRS statute numbers? Yes. That's what I said. I am sure of what I have to do, though. On election day it is my job to make sure the judges follow it.
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How do you do that if you're "not sure" what the statutes are?
 
\\(())// said:
How do you do that if you're "not sure" what the statutes are?
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How do you follow the regulations relevant to your work if you don't know exact statute numbers? Do you think an electrician, for example, can recite the CRS code numbers relevant to his work? Do you think you, for instance, can actually read a speed limit sign if you don't know the relevant statute numbers that would apply to speeding?

It's actually rather clear, the requirements are spelled out in the books and papers we must follow and that we must go through during training; and are what we have been talking about in this thread.

When the only ID required from a voter is a copy (a copy remember, not the actual bill) of a utility bill and you cannot ask for further verification it is impossible to collect the data that could provide those statistics without breaking the laws and violating the voting rights of another. In short you demand evidence that it is illegal for us to collect...
 
Damocles said:
How do you follow the regulations relevant to your work if you don't know exact statute numbers? Do you think an electrician, for example, can recite the CRS code numbers relevant to his work? Do you think you, for instance, can actually read a speed limit sign if you don't know the relevant statute numbers that would apply to speeding?
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If challenged, you should certainly be able to cite enabling legislation. That you can't is puzzling.

Damocles said:
It's actually rather clear, the requirements are spelled out in the books and papers we must follow and that we must go through during training; and are what we have been talking about in this thread.
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Then I can assume that the information has been made available to you?

Damocles said:
When the only ID required from a voter is a copy (a copy remember, not the actual bill) of a utility bill and you cannot ask for further verification it is impossible to collect the data that could provide those statistics without breaking the laws and violating the voting rights of another. In short you demand evidence that it is illegal for us to collect...
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I do?
 
\\(())// said:
If challenged, you should certainly be able to cite enabling legislation. That you can't is puzzling.
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Not really, I won't get my books until later this year (about a month before election during training), at that point the book relates the relevant CRS code.


Then I can assume that the information has been made available to you?
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However, you cannot assume that I can keep the relevant documentation in my personal collection. The office needs to be able to reuse the books for the next election whenever possible. They are very expensive as they are required and published on a very limited basis.

I do?
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Do you?
 
Damo most states I know of have measures in place to prevent absentee ballot fraud. In addittion don't those who use utility bill as a form of ID also have to validate their identity with a signature? If so why do you feel compelled to ask for additional ID?

Also, Dems have for a long time advocated a national voting holiday for national elections to make it easier for working people to fulfill there civic duty but Repubs have always opposed it. Why is that?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Damo most states I know of have measures in place to prevent absentee ballot fraud. In addittion don't those who use utility bill as a form of ID also have to validate their identity with a signature? If so why do you feel compelled to ask for additional ID?
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What measures? The reality is, if they sign the envelope the only check available is already done.

Also, Dems have for a long time advocated a national voting holiday for national elections to make it easier for working people to fulfill there civic duty but Repubs have always opposed it. Why is that?
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For the same reason the republicans like mail balloting but Democrats do not. This is one that I agree with. Let's have a "national voting day" holiday and have people go to the polls. I stated I like it better and why. I pointed out how easy it would be to get around the "checks" put in place for mail balloting. Add a true verification at the polling place with either a DL or a voting ID issued for that purpose and I'd be very happy...

I don't see the reason we need to argue about this forever. Let's get this done.
 
Damocles said:
What measures? The reality is, if they sign the envelope the only check available is already done.



For the same reason the republicans like mail balloting but Democrats do not. This is one that I agree with. Let's have a "national voting day" holiday and have people go to the polls. I stated I like it better and why. I pointed out how easy it would be to get around the "checks" put in place for mail balloting. Add a true verification at the polling place with either a DL or a voting ID issued for that purpose and I'd be very happy...

I don't see the reason we need to argue about this forever. Let's get this done.
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CA only requires a signature stating that you are who you say you are to register and to vote with severe penalties for making a false statement - no id of any type required - interestingly, you are required to show proof of where you reside to enroll your child in public school (a utility bill is the usual requirement)
 
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