The Religious Right's Plot To Take Control Of Our Public Schools

[Mott the Hoople]

Yeah, they're all for that so long as they don't have to pay to send your kid to a school that teaches secular humanism, blah, blah...

Set standards, like Belgium. However the idea that you should not give money to parochial schools so we can continue to fail our kids in a government monopoly is laughable. If the government run monopoly had produced superior students you may have a point, but it continues to get worse and fails to teach our children what they take for granted in places with actual Parental Choice.

Land of the free my A$$. If you are not free to send your children to the best available school you have lost an elemental freedom so that we can push constant failure on them instead.

Translation - I'm pissed cause I have to pay to send my kids to a private school. Whaaaa!

Damo you are absolutely free to send your kids to whatever school you want to send them too. No one is stopping you. Just step up to the registration desk and pay the tuition. If you're not willing to pony up then tough shit if you can't handle compromise cause the vast majority of Americans do not want religioius indoctrination in their publics schools nor do we want them undermined by economic inequalities. So spare me the "Secular Humanism" garbage.

 

[Damocles]

Translation - I'm pissed cause I have to pay to send my kids to a private school. Whaaaa!

I support public funding for education.

Damo you are absolutely free to send your kids to whatever school you want to send them too. No one is stopping you. Just step up to the registration desk and pay the tuition. If you're not willing to pony up then tough shit if you can't handle compromise cause the vast majority of Americans do not want religioius indoctrination in their publics schools nor do we want them undermined by economic inequalities. So spare me the "Secular Humanism" garbage.

Again, enforcing a permanent government monopoly, especially on the poor, has created a school system that fails to produce High School graduates that can compete with places where the public funding can be spent either publicly (state run) or privately.

You can be spared the "secular humanism" garbage when you begin to address the complete failure of the monopoly to educate our children at a level higher than almost passable.

 

[The Dude]

It's parents failing not school, Jesus cultist misuse the problem!

 

[leaningright]

Educator here. I have complaints about the public school system. I am in agreement with some folks on both sides as to what to do. In our state we are currently in the middle of a curriculum change that will definitely improve the overall education here. The problem I see ahead is consistency along with trying to put square pegs into round holes....meaning that there are some students we are required to serve in the public schools who will never pass these tests no matter how many times they take them.

A few years back our state passed legislation requiring our graduating seniors this year (2012) to pass 4 of 7 End Of Instruction tests (EOI's) in order to receive a high school diploma, two of which have to be Algebra I and English II. All of our seniors this year have met that requirement. Our 11th graders all have already met that requirement as well. The kids get to repeat the tests they fail if needed until graduation time.

I teach math....all of the math from 7th grade to Advanced Mathematics, which is a mixture of Algebra III, Trigonometry and Calculus. I am solely responsible for how my students perform on these EOI's. (note: 7th and 8th Math are not EOI's But OCCT's) Here are my stats for the past two years:

7th Math - 80% pass rate: State average - 78%
8th Math - 77% pass rate: State average - 80%
Algebra I - 100% pass rate on first attempt: State average - 83%
Geometry - 90% pass rate (two attempts maximum): State average - 75%
Algebra II - 60% pass rate (all attempts): State average - 65%

I am currently working extensively to up my percentages in 7th grade and 8th grade and of course trying to improve on all of them. But here is the deal. After passing the legislation requirements I have mentioned several years ago, the current legislators have now passed legislation suspending the requirements so they don't have to deal with kids not getting diplomas. (dadgum republicans ) I can understand the thinking behind this....they don't want to have to deal with a bunch of unhappy parents and they do make the argument that once you satisfactorily complete course work in college you get a degree.

Now they (mostly republicans) want to tie my yearly evaluation to my test scores (posted above), making them count for as much as 50% of the "how is leaningright performing as a teacher" document they do on me each year. I really don't care, or like the rednecks say, I "ain't skeered," but at the same time they shouldn't remove the accountability they placed on the kids. Look at the list of scores above. I am not a bad teacher but I have never had a group pass a state test at a rate of 100% on the first time in over 24 years of teaching. Why did they do that? I may have worked a little harder but the bottom line is that the kids passed the test because they knew they were required to pass the test. So if you are going to base my evaluation on how a bunch of 12 - 19 year olds perform on a test, don't remove the accountability from them in the meantime.

That is just one area of education I have strong opinions about. Getting rid of poor teachers (they do exist) and funding what you say you'll fund, merit pay (I'm for it) and many, many other areas...I got strong opinions about them too. Education is my passion. Public education. We have 13 public schools in our county and I work hard to prove that ours is the best....at least in the area of Mathematics. I enjoy it when I hear folks say something to effect that they would like their kids to go to (the school where I teach) because of the Math teacher there... Oh yea, I am for open transfers too.

 

[cawacko]

Hey leaningright, I have a couple of questions for you on education if I may ask them. The first one is on the teacher's union. I admit up front I am not a fan. Not because I don't believe teachers don't deserve support but because I believe the union is a huge impediment to change and fights very hard to keep the status quo in education. What is your experience with them and do you think I am right or am I off the mark?

 

[Airstrip One]

studies have shown (sorry no link) that schools where there is parental involvement, students do better than schools where there is no or little parental involvement

while i tend to agree that partisan politics detracts from the betterment of schools

parental involvement (other than meddling) is so far the best solution, but how do you get parents that are working two or three jobs to keep room and board for their children involved?

going back to the op, requiring religious instruction at schools or even permitting it takes away from academics and usual after school activities

Requiring religion in schools is out of the question. Permitting it seems fairly obvious, as students (particularly upper-classmen) are already allowed to take elective courses, many of which aren't academically rigorous.

 

[Airstrip One]

One of the major problems is that students undergo severe drop-offs on meeting standards as they get older. One documented phenomenon in reading/literacy is called the "4th Grade Slump," and it is shown that students who don't quite cut-it by the end of that crucial year will begin to suddenly fall farther behind and never catch up with where they need to be.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

It's parents failing not school, Jesus cultist misuse the problem!

Absofucking lutely right and then others want to manipulate that to have the public pay to send their kids to a private school. Damned cheap skates.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Hey leaningright, I have a couple of questions for you on education if I may ask them. The first one is on the teacher's union. I admit up front I am not a fan. Not because I don't believe teachers don't deserve support but because I believe the union is a huge impediment to change and fights very hard to keep the status quo in education. What is your experience with them and do you think I am right or am I off the mark?

Use single syllable words as much as possible in your answer LR and stay away from numbers all together. Wacko is a USC grad!!

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Educator here. I have complaints about the public school system. I am in agreement with some folks on both sides as to what to do. In our state we are currently in the middle of a curriculum change that will definitely improve the overall education here. The problem I see ahead is consistency along with trying to put square pegs into round holes....meaning that there are some students we are required to serve in the public schools who will never pass these tests no matter how many times they take them.

A few years back our state passed legislation requiring our graduating seniors this year (2012) to pass 4 of 7 End Of Instruction tests (EOI's) in order to receive a high school diploma, two of which have to be Algebra I and English II. All of our seniors this year have met that requirement. Our 11th graders all have already met that requirement as well. The kids get to repeat the tests they fail if needed until graduation time.

I teach math....all of the math from 7th grade to Advanced Mathematics, which is a mixture of Algebra III, Trigonometry and Calculus. I am solely responsible for how my students perform on these EOI's. (note: 7th and 8th Math are not EOI's But OCCT's) Here are my stats for the past two years:

7th Math - 80% pass rate: State average - 78%
8th Math - 77% pass rate: State average - 80%
Algebra I - 100% pass rate on first attempt: State average - 83%
Geometry - 90% pass rate (two attempts maximum): State average - 75%
Algebra II - 60% pass rate (all attempts): State average - 65%

I am currently working extensively to up my percentages in 7th grade and 8th grade and of course trying to improve on all of them. But here is the deal. After passing the legislation requirements I have mentioned several years ago, the current legislators have now passed legislation suspending the requirements so they don't have to deal with kids not getting diplomas. (dadgum republicans ) I can understand the thinking behind this....they don't want to have to deal with a bunch of unhappy parents and they do make the argument that once you satisfactorily complete course work in college you get a degree.

Now they (mostly republicans) want to tie my yearly evaluation to my test scores (posted above), making them count for as much as 50% of the "how is leaningright performing as a teacher" document they do on me each year. I really don't care, or like the rednecks say, I "ain't skeered," but at the same time they shouldn't remove the accountability they placed on the kids. Look at the list of scores above. I am not a bad teacher but I have never had a group pass a state test at a rate of 100% on the first time in over 24 years of teaching. Why did they do that? I may have worked a little harder but the bottom line is that the kids passed the test because they knew they were required to pass the test. So if you are going to base my evaluation on how a bunch of 12 - 19 year olds perform on a test, don't remove the accountability from them in the meantime.

That is just one area of education I have strong opinions about. Getting rid of poor teachers (they do exist) and funding what you say you'll fund, merit pay (I'm for it) and many, many other areas...I got strong opinions about them too. Education is my passion. Public education. We have 13 public schools in our county and I work hard to prove that ours is the best....at least in the area of Mathematics. I enjoy it when I hear folks say something to effect that they would like their kids to go to (the school where I teach) because of the Math teacher there... Oh yea, I am for open transfers too.

Excellent post LR. Nice to hear from someone in the field. Like I said.....I think parents are far more a problem with education then either Teachers or Teachers Unions. No one wants to hear that though, do they?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Requiring religion in schools is out of the question. Permitting it seems fairly obvious, as students (particularly upper-classmen) are already allowed to take elective courses, many of which aren't academically rigorous.

I have no problem with elective religion classes in our public school but the cumpulsory religious indoctrination is out! I put up with that crap when I was in high school. If you weren't Catholic in the high school I graduated from you weren't a life form. I had to deal with that for 6 months but my sister put up with out right discrimination for 4 years until my father went into the principles office and threatened to bring the State in.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

One of the major problems is that students undergo severe drop-offs on meeting standards as they get older. One documented phenomenon in reading/literacy is called the "4th Grade Slump," and it is shown that students who don't quite cut-it by the end of that crucial year will begin to suddenly fall farther behind and never catch up with where they need to be.

That certainly does explain a lot about you!

 

[cawacko]

Excellent post LR. Nice to hear from someone in the field. Like I said.....I think parents are far more a problem with education then either Teachers or Teachers Unions. No one wants to hear that though, do they?

Yes my question was about teachers union and I believe what I wrote but that aside there is no doubt that the biggest issue (good or bad) is the parents. Like Chris Rock said about little Johnny, "if you've seen his mamma you knew he didn't have a chance". There will always be exceptions, kids who come from great homes who f up or kids who come from completely broken homes and poverty and succeed but they are the exceptions not the rule.

 

[Damocles]

Excellent post LR. Nice to hear from someone in the field. Like I said.....I think parents are far more a problem with education then either Teachers or Teachers Unions. No one wants to hear that though, do they?

If choice is required parents will be more engaged, because (like leaningright's example where the students apply themselves when they know it is required) they will know they have to be plugged in.

 

[The Dude]

Parents job is to motivate, not teacher

 

[leaningright]

Hey leaningright, I have a couple of questions for you on education if I may ask them. The first one is on the teacher's union. I admit up front I am not a fan. Not because I don't believe teachers don't deserve support but because I believe the union is a huge impediment to change and fights very hard to keep the status quo in education. What is your experience with them and do you think I am right or am I off the mark?

I can certainly give my opinion. I am not a fan of "THE" teacher's union so I am not a member of the NEA nor the OEA (which is a subset of same). I am however a member of a non-union group, POE (Professional Oklahoma Educators) through whom I receive updates on what is going on both locally and nationally and through whom I also receive a bit of legal protection. I have also paid for legal insurance since I began teaching because you never know. I really think some of the efforts of the NEA are far-reaching and...well.....for a lack of a better way to put it....too liberal. I also think the NEA enables bad teachers to stay or makes it too difficult for administration to get rid of them. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Airstrip One]

I have no problem with elective religion classes in our public school but the cumpulsory religious indoctrination is out! I put up with that crap when I was in high school. If you weren't Catholic in the high school I graduated from you weren't a life form. I had to deal with that for 6 months but my sister put up with out right discrimination for 4 years until my father went into the principles office and threatened to bring the State in.

I don't think there's much question that you aren't a life form. It's just not a result of you being non-Catholic...

 

[Airstrip One]

I think we're all agreed that the number one problem is parents. I agree with Top that it shouldn't be the teachers' jobs to motivate (except in PE, of course), but rather to inspire already motivated students.

 

[leaningright]

Excellent post LR. Nice to hear from someone in the field. Like I said.....I think parents are far more a problem with education then either Teachers or Teachers Unions. No one wants to hear that though, do they?

I most definitely agree with this sentiment Mott, though I did note in the post above I don't particularly care for "THE" teacher's union.

 

[Airstrip One]

Absofucking lutely right and then others want to manipulate that to have the public pay to send their kids to a private school. Damned cheap skates.

The dilemma is thus: If quality education can be found only in private schools, then education has essentially become available exclusively to the wealthy (something we tend to fear in the US). For those trying to get vouchers, it is the only way for them to rescue their children from failing institutions, and so they are looking to cash-in, and send their children off to be with the rich kids.