The facts about drilling our way to cheap gas

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\\(())// said:
Unless you can present some cause and effect evidence, PiMP coincidence works...

BTW, did gas prices go up during any Republican administrations?
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Yes, gas prices have gone up under Republican administrations, no one has argued that Republicans can magically control gas prices. Pointing to Republicans and moaning that gas prices go up under them too, is not a solution to ever-increasing gas prices.... it's just NOT! You fail to recognize, Republican administrations have usually had to deal with Democrat majorities in either of the two houses or both, and Republicans have not been completely able to do any damn thing they pleased, like Obama is doing. Bush did increase domestic production (Obama is now taking credit for this), at the time he announced this, crude oil was over $100 a barrel... two weeks after he announced his policy, the price had dropped to $41 a barrel.

To those so ignorant as to think more domestic drilling will not decrease the price of gas at the pumps... let me ask you this, what is the current price of gasoline in Saudi Arabia, where they have an abundance of domestic supply? (hint for DripDrip... it's 91 cents.)
 
Derp Derp said:
You're partially right. If increased domestic production leads to reduced domestic prices then domestic producers would only sell abroad where prices are higher.

Be that as it may, increased domestic production alone is not the answer.
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that would still decrease oil prices overall....
 
Dixie said:
Again, yes... a person who buys a stock with the speculation that it might grow in value, is a "speculator" in EVERY SENSE of the word. People buy things everyday on the commodities market, with the hope and expectation of making a profit, and yes... they SPECULATE they will make a profit. There is no way to eliminate speculation without eliminating free market capitalism, because that is exactly what happens when you prohibit speculation.

Let's take your analogy with the bread and consider, the grocery has a limited supply of bread (our current oil situation), versus a grocer who employs a bread maker, who can replenish whatever the 'speculators' buy (increased domestic production), and satisfy the market demand for the day... what happens to the 'speculator' then? Increased domestic drilling does more to discourage profiteering from speculators than anything we could do! Suddenly, there is no profit to be made in gobbling up all the cheap oil, because there is too much of it, and the price is now DROPPING not rising. So the speculators begin to sell off the futures they have... and the price continues to drop... the last time we announced massive increases in domestic drilling (under Bush), the price of crude went from over $100 a barrel to around $40, in a matter of two weeks. This was largely due to speculators unloading all the oil futures.

There is also ANOTHER aspect to domestic drilling that everyone wants to completely ignore here, and the is number of jobs and economic activity it would create. Thousands... maybe millions of jobs, good paying Big Oil jobs... hundreds of support industries which service the oil industry... hundreds of trucking and transport companies moving gas and oil around... more gas refining, meaning more jobs there as well. All of these jobs paying taxes, all of these companies making profits and paying taxes... as opposed to clinging to some idiocy that doesn't even make rational sense, of NOT drilling more?
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in short, using your definition of "speculator" we should applaud their activities in the market place.....using my definition of speculator we should castrate them and leave them for dead.....since we don't share a common definition there is no reason to continue this argument.....
 
\\(())// said:
Unless you can present some cause and effect evidence, PiMP coincidence works...

BTW, did gas prices go up during any Republican administrations?
Click to expand...

yes, it went up under Bush until he "coincidentally" lifted the restrictions on domestic production of oil......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
in short, using your definition of "speculator" we should applaud their activities in the market place.....using my definition of speculator we should castrate them and leave them for dead.....since we don't share a common definition there is no reason to continue this argument.....
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Let's be clear, there can be only one accurate definition of "speculator" and it is a person who speculates and purchases commodities in this case. Our definitions don't differ, you just want to argue that oil speculators are "not needed" but that isn't a tenable argument. Do we "need" people to buy and sell stocks on the stock market? Yes or no? Could we function economically without people speculating and trading openly on the market? Yeah... if we want to become a Communist society.

The principle you have attached yourself to, in your personal vendetta with "speculators" is the nucleus for how the Socialist Marxists intend to transform us into a pure Communist society, and apparently you are too boneheaded to realize that. There is NOTHING wrong with speculators or speculation! I did not say that we "should applaud their activities" but we certainly shouldn't demonize them and concede the point to the rhetoric of the Socialists! We have mechanisms in place to prevent unfair advantages and unethical trade practices, if someone is breaking the law we punish them and send them to prison... but to turn an entire group of legitimate market investors into bad guys, so you can feel good about giving a hand job to a liberal... I just don't know what to think of you.
 
Dixie said:
Our definitions don't differ
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obviously they do......you think people who speculate on commodities and people who buy stock on the stock market are the same.....that is not true under my definition of speculators......that is my definition of investors....speculators are not investors.....

under my definition of speculators they are not only unnecessary, they damage the free market system by inserting themselves in between the buyer and the seller.....

Do we "need" people to buy and sell stocks on the stock market? Yes or no?
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do we need investors?....of course.....do we need day traders?...fuck no.....they are speculators.....
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
obviously they do......you think people who speculate on commodities and people who buy stock on the stock market are the same.....that is not true under my definition of speculators......that is my definition of investors....speculators are not investors.....

under my definition of speculators they are not only unnecessary, they damage the free market system by inserting themselves in between the buyer and the seller.....



do we need investors?....of course.....do we need day traders?...fuck no.....they are speculators.....
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Speculators are the driving force behind the markets! Every fucking trade on the stock exchange is SPECU-FUCKING-LATION dumbass!
 
Dixie said:
So Obama releasing oil from the strategic reserves will not have any immediate effect on the price of oil? Thanks for being honest!! The president can (and often does) take action to influence the oil market. While it is true, the president doesn't set the price, he does control policy, and at the current time, we have a very restrictive drilling policy, along with a middle east that is on fire... ergo; high gas prices. GUARANTEED: If we drill for more domestic oil, we will have more domestic oil available. GUARANTEED: If we had more oil available, the price would go down. It's not complicated or hard to understand, these are the facts of life when it comes to oil and gas prices.
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LOL, the only thing "guaranteed" is that, as usual, Dix provides no evidence to support his capitalized claims.

Maybe some more exclamation points would close the deal?

In the medium term it's hard to say what impact increased production from the United Sates would have on oil prices.

Ten million barrels a day is a lot of oil, though critics say the industry would never be able to generate that much and note the potential high environmental costs of drilling everywhere.


Plus OPEC might simply cut that amount of production to keep prices high.


Either way, it's unlikely more drilling now would lower gas prices anytime soon.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/23/news/economy/oil-industry-gas-prices/index.htm?iid=RNM
 
Dixie said:
Speculators are the driving force behind the markets! Every fucking trade on the stock exchange is SPECU-FUCKING-LATION dumbass!
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???....no, investors are....speculators are the assholes fucking it up......as I said, you have the wrong definition for speculators....you think they are the same as investors.....

in the commodities market you need two players.....you need the producer of the commodity who wants to sell and you need the user of the commodity who needs to use......everyone else is a speculator, is unnecessary, and costs us money we don't need to spend.....

as I said, if you're going to insist on using a broad definition of "speculation" as anyone who hopes to make a profit, there is no reason to continue this discussion, because we aren't talking about the same thing.......if you want to talk about the leeches who fuck up the market instead we can continue.....
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
???....no, investors are....speculators are the assholes fucking it up......as I said, you have the wrong definition for speculators....you think they are the same as investors.....

in the commodities market you need two players.....you need the producer of the commodity who wants to sell and you need the user of the commodity who needs to use......everyone else is a speculator, is unnecessary, and costs us money we don't need to spend.....

as I said, if you're going to insist on using a broad definition of "speculation" as anyone who hopes to make a profit, there is no reason to continue this discussion, because we aren't talking about the same thing.......if you want to talk about the leeches who fuck up the market instead we can continue.....
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I think you left your door unlocked and some liberal fucked you in the head while you were asleep. A "speculator" is a type of investor, a "speculative" investor, to be exact, that is where the name comes from. They are no different than any other market investor, nor is their motivation, they are ALL there with the expectation to make a profit. What you are trying to say is, our stock market trading should be closed to the public, and only producers and suppliers should ever be allowed to trade stocks. That's fucked up! And if you are too stupid to see that, it's a fucking wonder you've not been fucked in the head by liberals before now.
 
Dixie said:
I think you left your door unlocked and some liberal fucked you in the head while you were asleep. A "speculator" is a type of investor, a "speculative" investor, to be exact, that is where the name comes from. They are no different than any other market investor, nor is their motivation, they are ALL there with the expectation to make a profit. What you are trying to say is, our stock market trading should be closed to the public, and only producers and suppliers should ever be allowed to trade stocks. That's fucked up! And if you are too stupid to see that, it's a fucking wonder you've not been fucked in the head by liberals before now.
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as I said, we do not share the same definition of speculator.....for some strange reason you deny that, although it's obvious.....also as I have said, if that's the only definition of speculator you are willing to use, then I will agree with you, there is nothing to debate.....if however, you want to use the definition of speculator that I use there is no reason to close the stock market or the commodities market....we simply need to get rid of the speculators.....

by the way, stop intermingling "stock market" with "commodity market".....there are no producers or suppliers in the stock market......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
as I said, we do not share the same definition of speculator.....for some strange reason you deny that, although it's obvious.....also as I have said, if that's the only definition of speculator you are willing to use, then I will agree with you, there is nothing to debate.....if however, you want to use the definition of speculator that I use there is no reason to close the stock market or the commodities market....we simply need to get rid of the speculators.....

by the way, stop intermingling "stock market" with "commodity market".....there are no producers or suppliers in the stock market......
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As we've established, there is only one definition of the word, and I have not used it incorrectly. You can stubbornly pretend we're talking about different things, but really, we're not. You just want to demonize a certain group of investors, because some pinhead has fucked you in the head without your knowledge, apparently. For God sakes, snap out of it! Isn't the fact that you are now arguing semantics with me, an indication of how pinheaded you've become? Next thing you know, you'll find yourself at an OWS rally, and not know how the hell you got there!

The Socialist Marxists have to destroy the stock market, don't you understand that? In order to implement Communism fully, the fucking market has to be destroyed completely. The idea is, turn people against those who trade and profit in the markets by demonizing them, and one of their primary targets is "speculators" or short-term investors. Once they have successfully brain-fucked people like you, they can change the laws regarding "day traders" or "speculators" and then they can simply apply that law as it was never intended, to virtually ANY private entity trading stocks. Ultimately, this would be the death of the stock market, because virtually EVERY investor could be considered a "speculator" since that is exactly what trading stocks is... SPECULATION!

But your head is too full of liberal splooge to comprehend any of this, I don't know why I am wasting my time.
Conservatives.... please lock your doors at night! Don't get unexpectedly fucked in the head by pinheads!
 
Dixie said:
Yes, gas prices have gone up under Republican administrations, no one has argued that Republicans can magically control gas prices. Pointing to Republicans and moaning that gas prices go up under them too, is not a solution to ever-increasing gas prices.... it's just NOT! You fail to recognize, Republican administrations have usually had to deal with Democrat majorities in either of the two houses or both, and Republicans have not been completely able to do any damn thing they pleased, like Obama is doing.
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ZOMG...yeah...poor poor Righties have had to deal with those damn Democrat majorities...EXCEPT for the SIX YEARS they ran the whole show...my GOD Dix you sure do tell some whoppers.


Dixie said:
Bush did increase domestic production (Obama is now taking credit for this), at the time he announced this, crude oil was over $100 a barrel... two weeks after he announced his policy, the price had dropped to $41 a barrel.
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Yeah...right.

Cite.


Dixie said:
To those so ignorant as to think more domestic drilling will not decrease the price of gas at the pumps... let me ask you this, what is the current price of gasoline in Saudi Arabia, where they have an abundance of domestic supply? (hint for DripDrip... it's 91 cents.)
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Again...cite.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
ZOMG...yeah...poor poor Righties have had to deal with those damn Democrat majorities...EXCEPT for the SIX YEARS they ran the whole show...my GOD Dix you sure do tell some whoppers.
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Yeah, 6 years outta what? 70? 80? 140? For the most part, the past century, congress has been dominated by Democrats. Next time, could you try a little harder to make my points? Thanks!


Yeah...right.

Cite.

Again...cite.
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Yeah... right... homie don't play that shit. You can find the information, it's out there. Google is your friend! MORON!
 
LOL, Dixie and PiMP can't cite...



U.S. demand for gasoline is on a long downward trend.

While Americans are using fewer gallons of oil per person, consumers in India, China and other emerging markets are using more.

In 2010, China added 10 million more cars. With a population of more than 1 billion people, that nation is going to use more oil in the future and that demand will likely drive prices up.

Ironically, foreign buyers are attracted to the U.S. gasoline market because U.S. refiners can produce gasoline more cheaply than refiners in Europe or Latin America...


http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...-gas-prices-are-rising-even-as-demand-is-down
 
\\(())// said:
LOL, Dixie and PiMP can't cite...



U.S. demand for gasoline is on a long downward trend.

While Americans are using fewer gallons of oil per person, consumers in India, China and other emerging markets are using more.

In 2010, China added 10 million more cars. With a population of more than 1 billion people, that nation is going to use more oil in the future and that demand will likely drive prices up.

Ironically, foreign buyers are attracted to the U.S. gasoline market because U.S. refiners can produce gasoline more cheaply than refiners in Europe or Latin America...


http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...-gas-prices-are-rising-even-as-demand-is-down
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lol.....you try to prove demand is down by citing increased demand.....bravo, child, bravo.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
and what is it you believe this proves?.....I can tell you what it proves....as gas gets more expensive people can't afford to buy as much of it......
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Still claiming that high prices are Obama's fault, ignoring the increased offshore demand for oil which causes US consumers to pay more as competition heats up?

Poor PiMP.
 
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