Say it with me...

  • Thread starter Thread starter WinterBorn
  • Start date Start date
WinterBorn said:
So you don't see a problem with the fact that the only thing the conservatives seem to have a problem with is oral contraceptives? And just as an FYI, insurance companies routinely deny coverage of birth control pills, whether they are for preventing pregnancy or treating another medical condition.
Click to expand...

Insurance companies SHOULD deny coverage of birth control pills, if they are prescribed for contraceptive purposes. You say they all deny coverage for the pill, even when it's not for contraception... well, fine, we have some mutual common ground where we can find a compromise here! I'm not opposed to a mandate forcing them to cover birth control pills prescribed for things other than contraception! But that isn't what the left wants, and not what you are lobbying for, you want ALL birth control covered, regardless of the reason, and I disagree with that viewpoint.
 
Derp Derp said:
No but your just a lowly and expendable woman and he knows better than you do what's in your best interest. So why should he be troubled with your health care problems?
Click to expand...

Thanks, this was what I was picking up with him, but your verification helps!
 
Drip Drip said:
They aren't? Oh please Dixie...this ought to be great comedy. Please explain why they would not be? LOL
Click to expand...

Sorry to disappoint you, but there isn't any comedy in the truth, nor is an 'explanation' needed.... unless you are fucking retarded... oh yeah, forgot who I was talking to here.... sorry!

Preventive care services are basic minimum coverage.

Stress is the cause of the overwhelming majority of health problems in America. In order to prevent illness due to stress, you can take a vacation to a nice Caribbean island..... does your insurance company cover the cost? Should they???

Another contributing factor to our health is our food, we can prevent all kinds of diseases and ailments by simply eating the right food.... but organic foods are through the roof.... does your insurance cover the cost? Should they???

The best way to avoid (or prevent) ill health, is to exercise. Now, I see all kinds of gyms all over town, and there is tons of exercise machinery on ebay... does your insurance pay for all of this too? Should they???

Finally, I know this is "dental" but your teeth are very important to your overall health, if they go bad on you, it could mean all kinds of severe health problems.... so it is fundamentally important to maintaining good health, to brush your teeth properly each day. Does your insurance company provide for the cost of toothpaste and toothbrushes? Should they???

As we can see, there are all sorts of examples of "preventative care" that aren't covered by ANY insurance policy, and it's ridiculous to presume they should! Then there is the actual act of "preventing" and who ultimately is responsible... Do you think the insurance companies are responsible for preventing our illnesses, or are WE supposed to do that?
 
Dixie said:
Sorry to disappoint you, but there isn't any comedy in the truth, nor is an 'explanation' needed.... unless you are fucking retarded... oh yeah, forgot who I was talking to here.... sorry!

Preventive care services are basic minimum coverage.

Stress is the cause of the overwhelming majority of health problems in America. In order to prevent illness due to stress, you can take a vacation to a nice Caribbean island..... does your insurance company cover the cost? Should they???

Another contributing factor to our health is our food, we can prevent all kinds of diseases and ailments by simply eating the right food.... but organic foods are through the roof.... does your insurance cover the cost? Should they???

The best way to avoid (or prevent) ill health, is to exercise. Now, I see all kinds of gyms all over town, and there is tons of exercise machinery on ebay... does your insurance pay for all of this too? Should they???

Finally, I know this is "dental" but your teeth are very important to your overall health, if they go bad on you, it could mean all kinds of severe health problems.... so it is fundamentally important to maintaining good health, to brush your teeth properly each day. Does your insurance company provide for the cost of toothpaste and toothbrushes? Should they???

As we can see, there are all sorts of examples of "preventative care" that aren't covered by ANY insurance policy, and it's ridiculous to presume they should! Then there is the actual act of "preventing" and who ultimately is responsible... Do you think the insurance companies are responsible for preventing our illnesses, or are WE supposed to do that?
Click to expand...


Um, none of those items listed are health care services. So . . . yeah, you're a dumbass.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Um, none of those items listed are health care services. So . . . yeah, you're a dumbass.
Click to expand...

LOL... what kind of circular reasoning is that?

So what you meant to post was: Preventive care services, but only things deemed as "health care", are basic minimum coverage?

Wel... okay.... contraception is NOT a basic health care need.

Debate over.
 
Dixie said:
Sorry to disappoint you, but there isn't any comedy in the truth, nor is an 'explanation' needed.... unless you are fucking retarded... oh yeah, forgot who I was talking to here.... sorry!

Preventive care services are basic minimum coverage.

Stress is the cause of the overwhelming majority of health problems in America. In order to prevent illness due to stress, you can take a vacation to a nice Caribbean island..... does your insurance company cover the cost? Should they???

Another contributing factor to our health is our food, we can prevent all kinds of diseases and ailments by simply eating the right food.... but organic foods are through the roof.... does your insurance cover the cost? Should they???

The best way to avoid (or prevent) ill health, is to exercise. Now, I see all kinds of gyms all over town, and there is tons of exercise machinery on ebay... does your insurance pay for all of this too? Should they???

Finally, I know this is "dental" but your teeth are very important to your overall health, if they go bad on you, it could mean all kinds of severe health problems.... so it is fundamentally important to maintaining good health, to brush your teeth properly each day. Does your insurance company provide for the cost of toothpaste and toothbrushes? Should they???

As we can see, there are all sorts of examples of "preventative care" that aren't covered by ANY insurance policy, and it's ridiculous to presume they should! Then there is the actual act of "preventing" and who ultimately is responsible... Do you think the insurance companies are responsible for preventing our illnesses, or are WE supposed to do that?
Click to expand...

So let me get this right Dixie. If I manage stress, eat right, exercise regularly and brush my teeth I would then have no need for preventative care that's known to save lives and lower cost such as physical examinations/screenings, mamograms, colonoscopy, birth control, blood chemistries, immunization, musculoskeletal treatments, rehabilitation, prophylaxis (no, not condoms Dixie!), etc, should not be considered as part of basic coverage even though their proven to not only save lives and reduce morbidity but also to save money?

See I knew this would be great comedy! :)
 
Dixie said:
LOL... what kind of circular reasoning is that?

So what you meant to post was: Preventive care services, but only things deemed as "health care", are basic minimum coverage?
Click to expand...

It isn't circular at all. Heath insurance covers health care services. Preventive care services are a subset of health care services. Things like vacations, organic food and gym memberships aren't healthcare services and thus cannot be a subset of health care services.

Dixie said:
Wel... okay.... contraception is NOT a basic health care need.

Debate over.
Click to expand...

OK. I'm certain that your persuasive argument has convinced many.
 
Dixie said:
Insurance companies SHOULD deny coverage of birth control pills, if they are prescribed for contraceptive purposes. You say they all deny coverage for the pill, even when it's not for contraception... well, fine, we have some mutual common ground where we can find a compromise here! I'm not opposed to a mandate forcing them to cover birth control pills prescribed for things other than contraception! But that isn't what the left wants, and not what you are lobbying for, you want ALL birth control covered, regardless of the reason, and I disagree with that viewpoint.
Click to expand...

Its a stupid compromise, just like medical marijuana. Its one of those 'feel good' things. You accept that there medical uses of birth control, just fucking make insurance cover it. Otherwise you'll just create a bueracratic nightmare and end up wasting time and effort enforcing something that costs less than enforcement.
 
Drip Drip said:
So let me get this right Dixie. If I manage stress, eat right, exercise regularly and brush my teeth I would then have no need for preventative care that's known to save lives and lower cost such as physical examinations/screenings, mamograms, colonoscopy, birth control, blood chemistries, immunization, musculoskeletal treatments, rehabilitation, prophylaxis (no, not condoms Dixie!), etc, should not be considered as part of basic coverage even though their proven to not only save lives and reduce morbidity but also to save money?

See I knew this would be great comedy! :)
Click to expand...

Well, first of all, it's not all that funny to morph my words into something I did not say, and parade around like a clown. I know you think it is, and probably Darla will give you a "thank" but really.... totally NOT funny.

I didn't say you wouldn't have a need for other preventative care, where did you read that? I simply pointed out the many different things that we can do to prevent illness, and how insurance companies are not presently obligated to cover the cost. Those were just whimsical thoughts off the top of my head, I am sure if I had a few days to think on it, I could come up with all sorts of examples of things insurance doesn't pay for, which could be 'preventative care', when it comes to our health.

The key thing that seems to be skipping over your head, is the fact that the insurance company and the government, can't ultimately administer "prevention" because that requires the action of the individual. YOU have to make the choices of what goes into your body, how you exercise, and risks you take with your health, when to go have a screening, etc. the insurance company and the government can't do a thing about that. So you are having them pay for something they ultimately can't administer or have control over. But even more insidiously, it isn't the insurance company who pays for this, it's the people who pay the premiums. Talk about fucked beyond recognition?

I have no problem with things like blood pressure screenings, diabetes testings, etc.... You fucktards want desperately to pin me to the mat on this kind of thing, when I have never advocated any objection to any of these smart and practical approaches to preventive medicine. But contraception is NOT PREVENTATIVE CARE! It prevents pregnancy! There are OTHER ways to prevent pregnancy! The condition of pregnancy is not an ILLNESS! This is ultimately no different than me claiming insurance companies ought to have to pay for my POT!
 
Rana said:
I thought you said you were smart, you can figure it out. The eighteen year old man may not use it, but at some point he may be glad it is overed for his wife or girlfriend.

You may never use most procedures or medication offered by insurance, but then,again, if you need them, you will be glad they are overed.
Click to expand...

oh my, you missed the point again......I am raising the question of why those who never will use the service should be charged for them as a "basic minimum coverage:.........
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Basic minimum coverage should cover preventive care services for all people. Those preventive care services differ for different demographic groups. This stuff isn't all that tough.
Click to expand...

I believe that's the important point.....insurance to this point WAS based on demographics......I don't have minor children.....I chose an insurance policy that didn't cover dental and eyecare for minor children.......Obamacare now requires I have insurance to cover those expenses even though I will never need them.....insurance can no longer be designed for different demographic groups......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I believe that's the important point.....insurance to this point WAS based on demographics......I don't have minor children.....I chose an insurance policy that didn't cover dental and eyecare for minor children.......Obamacare now requires I have insurance to cover those expenses even though I will never need them.....insurance can no longer be designed for different demographic groups......
Click to expand...


I don't think you quite understand how it works. The preventive care services that are covered under the basic minimum are not the same for everyone. They are different, but everyone gets coverage of preventive care services. You don't get mamograms or pap smears or any of the other stuff specific to women.
 
Liberals dream in a static vacuum, where nothing ever changes as a result of their dreams... they can't comprehend what would happen to the price of birth control, if suddenly it were a mandate that insurance companies cover it. Most of you are familiar with the cost of a hospital stay, from personal experience or a relative... you know that Tylenol, for example, is about $50 a pop. Now, does a dose of Tylenol actually COST this much? Or is this the price which has been established because insurance is going to cover 80% of it? And what exactly IS 80% of $50? Well, it's $40, meaning the Tylenol actually cost the patient $10.... would they have been better off to provide their own Tylenol? Did it SAVE money to have insurance cover it?

You see, no matter what we do in the way of health care, there is nothing in this reality and universe known as "FREE STUFF!" No matter what laws we pass or mandates are imposed, whatever services we demand be provided, are going to have to be paid for by someone, at some time. There is not a universe where rich fat cat bastards hand over their wealth and eat macaroni and cheese for dinner, while we dance in the streets. There is no reality where insurance companies cover the expense of something, and that expense is not passed on to their customers in the form of higher premiums. This reality and universe simply doesn't exist.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
all right, then.....the issue is clearly whether birth control should be part of "basic minimum coverage"........should the basic minimum coverage for an 18 year old male include birth control?....or any man, for that matter?......should the basic minimum coverage for a woman past menopause include birth control?.......
Click to expand...

Should the basic minimum coverage for an 18 year old female (or any female) include prostate exams? Should the basic minimum coverage for women include vasectomies?
 
Dixie said:
Liberals dream in a static vacuum, where nothing ever changes as a result of their dreams... they can't comprehend what would happen to the price of birth control, if suddenly it were a mandate that insurance companies cover it. Most of you are familiar with the cost of a hospital stay, from personal experience or a relative... you know that Tylenol, for example, is about $50 a pop. Now, does a dose of Tylenol actually COST this much? Or is this the price which has been established because insurance is going to cover 80% of it? And what exactly IS 80% of $50? Well, it's $40, meaning the Tylenol actually cost the patient $10.... would they have been better off to provide their own Tylenol? Did it SAVE money to have insurance cover it?

You see, no matter what we do in the way of health care, there is nothing in this reality and universe known as "FREE STUFF!" No matter what laws we pass or mandates are imposed, whatever services we demand be provided, are going to have to be paid for by someone, at some time. There is not a universe where rich fat cat bastards hand over their wealth and eat macaroni and cheese for dinner, while we dance in the streets. There is no reality where insurance companies cover the expense of something, and that expense is not passed on to their customers in the form of higher premiums. This reality and universe simply doesn't exist.
Click to expand...


I think you are mistaking being OK with the results of a given policy and not understanding the results of a given policy. I understand perfectly well that the costs of providing birth control will cost money and that the insurers will spread that cost among all of their insureds and I am perfectly OK with it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top