Gender rating

Superfreak said:
Its the woman's body... should she not be the one to take care of it and the costs associated with doing so? If you on the one hand eliminate men from the decision on what happens if their mutual act results in a child and the woman decides to opt for the metal spike rather than the life of the child... why should men then also share the costs of insurance for a woman? He gets to pay but has no say?
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This thread isn't about birth control and abortion only. It's about everything related to women's health v. men's health.

Let me run this by you.

Our insurance company suggests that every insured has a yearly physical. I have one annually, my husband doesn't. In fact, he never goes to the doctor for anything, even if he's sick. I'm doing what the company suggests, i.e. preventive care. Husband may not see a doctor until he has an event, and that event may cost a lot more than my annual exams do. Who's doing the right thing here?
 
dixon76710 said:
And does your wife go to those Drs, 3-4 times MORE often than you do? THATS why womens healthcare insurance cost more, because they use more health care. EVEN when maternity care is excluded from the equation, they still use more healthcare.
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Do they use more health care because they take preventive measures, or because they're less healthy?
 
bravo said:
The fact remains....

Fucking is your choice....take responsibility for its unintended consequences .... whether its disease or pregnancy......(pregnancy is not a disease)
I preferred a prophylactic rather than gonorrhea......it was MY responsibility to not get a disease ...

Why the hell do you expect strangers to take responsibility for your choices....
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If you preferred a prophylactic rather than gonorrhea, I presume you're talking about when you weren't in a committed relationship. And if your partners were on the pill, all the better for you. But married women use birth control, too.
 
bravo said:
Of course I deny that....that isn't what the thread is about, or did you just jump into the middle of it.....

The thread is about 'birth control'....and it is the personal responsibility of every person to guard against injury to himself.....

Do you want the state to buy you a reflective vest for you cycle riding ?......Or snow tires for your winter driving.....No....

but women expect others to pay for their own protection against STD's and pregnancy.....

Man or women...its you body, take precautions against injury....its the fuckin' least we can expect you to do on your own....
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The thread is NOT about birth control. It's about how women pay more than men for care. Did you read this sentence: "In Ohio, 100 percent of the best-selling individual health insurance plans practice gender rating, and 100 percent exclude maternity coverage." Why would they exclude a natural act like giving birth? It's not like a man could do it.
 
bravo said:
women aren't fucking and having babies on their own

These are your words....you need to clarify what your trying to convey.....

Fucking is your choice....take responsibility for its unintended consequences .... whether its disease or pregnancy......(pregnancy is not a disease)
I preferred a prophylactic rather than gonorrhea......it was MY responsibility to not get a disease ...

Why the hell do you expect strangers to take responsibility for your choices......
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First of all, those are my words. More importantly, are you fucking stupid?

This has nothing to do with women taking responsibility. Simply being a woman is a pre-existing condition. Further, if no one had babies we'd die out fairly quickly. Men and women have babies. Fostering the entire burden of paying for that very human function onto women is unfair and sexist.

God you are such a neanderthal.
 
Onceler said:
I wonder - if we could survey something like this, how many abortions have been performed over the loud objections of the men involved?
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Oh if you read MRA sites, anti-choice sites, or heck, just read the guys here, you'd swear that nearly every abortion occurred with the "father" hanging from the woman's leg, pleading "Please don't kill my baby I'll take care of it, I swear, please!!!"

They live on another planet.
 
Oh well it's a done deal anyway. There will always be those whiners who refuse to adapt. This is exactly the theme of Mad Men this year, IMO.

"When's everything going to get back to normal?"

For you? It ain't.

The world's moved on.

40 odd years later, they're still whining about it.
 
christiefan915 said:
The thread is NOT about birth control. It's about how women pay more than men for care. Did you read this sentence: "In Ohio, 100 percent of the best-selling individual health insurance plans practice gender rating, and 100 percent exclude maternity coverage." Why would they exclude a natural act like giving birth? It's not like a man could do it.
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Sorry that was my bad for allowing myself to get sucked into that. Frankly I find the idea that men shouldn't as a group, share in the cost of bearing children, to be offensive, period.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
The thing they pay more for is health insurance. The same health insurance men purchase. Women pay more for health insurance because they utilize more healthcare services and they utilize more health care services because they are women.
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Right, but they don't pay for the SAME coverage. They pay for the coverage THEY will need. Men pay for the coverage THEY will need. It is this insanely stupid cookie cutter approach that liberals cling to that drives me nuts.

So you want to hold women "personally responsible" for being born women? OK. I don't want to "try and pass costs onto others as much as I can" but to equalize the costs that result from not having your good fortune of being born make.
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You ARE passing costs, you are not equalizing them. Here is a hint and do try and follow along. We are not equal. You and I are not equal. We both have our strengths and weaknesses. Trying to put this off as 'holding them personally responsible for being born women' is just your ignorant way of trying to demonize those who suggest that people pay their own way. As I stated, there are other areas in life where men will pay more for things. Trying to make sure we all pay the same for consumable items is just as friggin retarded as what you are suggesting. Women use more health care services. That is a fact of life. They do so much more frequently during their 20-40's.


How are pap smears and mamograms, on the one hand, and pedicures, on the other, remotely similar?
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The point is that there are things that women are going to need/want/use more and things that men will need/want/use more. This stupidity of everyone should pay the same for everything regardless of how much we use it is fucking moronic.

I would advocate for no sex discrimination in the food insurance marketplace. Would that satisfy you?
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What about discrimination at the grocery stores. They make me pay more than a single woman. Thats not fair!!! Boo hoo, boo hoo, you just want to punish me for the misfortune of being born a man. Boo hoo, boo hoo.

There's some nonsense here, alright, but it ain't coming from me.
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Actually, it is indeed coming from you.
 
christiefan915 said:
This thread isn't about birth control and abortion only. It's about everything related to women's health v. men's health.

Let me run this by you.

Our insurance company suggests that every insured has a yearly physical. I have one annually, my husband doesn't. In fact, he never goes to the doctor for anything, even if he's sick. I'm doing what the company suggests, i.e. preventive care. Husband may not see a doctor until he has an event, and that event may cost a lot more than my annual exams do. Who's doing the right thing here?
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I didn't suggest it was about abortion only... it is about how much you use of the services.

I believe everyone should adhere to his/her doctors advice about preventative medicine. You are absolutely in the right to listen to your doctor and your husband is being careless in not listening to him. But if your doctor sends you for a physical and four other preventative tests and sends your husband for a physical and one test. Should you both be charged identically? The notion that everyone should have a cookie cutter insurance plan and split the costs of everything equally is nonsense. It is a large part of what is driving up healthcare costs. Pay for what you use. I will pay for what I use.
 
Superfreak said:
Right, but they don't pay for the SAME coverage. They pay for the coverage THEY will need. Men pay for the coverage THEY will need. It is this insanely stupid cookie cutter approach that liberals cling to that drives me nuts.
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They pay for the same insurance. The insurance covers different things because different demographic groups have different healthcare needs. It isn't a "cookie cutter" approach. You aren't covered for pap smears and mamograms and women aren't covered for prostate exams but women and men both have coverage for appropriate preventive care services.


Superfreak said:
You ARE passing costs, you are not equalizing them. Here is a hint and do try and follow along. We are not equal. You and I are not equal. We both have our strengths and weaknesses. Trying to put this off as 'holding them personally responsible for being born women' is just your ignorant way of trying to demonize those who suggest that people pay their own way. As I stated, there are other areas in life where men will pay more for things. Trying to make sure we all pay the same for consumable items is just as friggin retarded as what you are suggesting. Women use more health care services. That is a fact of life. They do so much more frequently during their 20-40's.
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Passing costs is the method by which costs are equalized. And, yes, I agree that men and women are different. The difference between you and me is that you want women to bear the higher costs for medical care that women require by virtue of being women and I don't. It isn't their fault that they were born women and have higher medical costs. Just like it isn't to your credit that you're a man and your healthcare costs are less.


Superfreak said:
The point is that there are things that women are going to need/want/use more and things that men will need/want/use more. This stupidity of everyone should pay the same for everything regardless of how much we use it is fucking moronic.
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Right. Pedicures, full foils, facials, pap smears, mamograms, pre- and post-natal care, labor and delivery, birth control. All the same, really.


Superfreak said:
What about discrimination at the grocery stores. They make me pay more than a single woman. Thats not fair!!! Boo hoo, boo hoo, you just want to punish me for the misfortune of being born a man. Boo hoo, boo hoo.
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Call the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. I'm sure they'll make a federal case of it. You could be just the thing the male empowerment movement needs to end the years of repression and discrimination among America's grocers.


Superfreak said:
Actually, it is indeed coming from you.
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Oh well since you said "actually" I suppose I must reconsider.
 
Dh that is so awesome that you know about full foils as opposed to partials!

And this is the best paragraph for the entire day:

"Call the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. I'm sure they'll make a federal case of it. You could be just the thing the male empowerment movement needs to end the years of repression and discrimination among America's grocers. "

LOL
 
Darla said:
Dh that is so awesome that you know about full foils as opposed to partials!

And this is the best paragraph for the entire day:

"Call the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. I'm sure they'll make a federal case of it. You could be just the thing the male empowerment movement needs to end the years of repression and discrimination among America's grocers. "

LOL
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Yeah, that was something about full foils, wasn't it! I knew there was a reason we like him and it's not just because he's a liberal.
 
Superfreak said:
I didn't suggest it was about abortion only... it is about how much you use of the services.

I believe everyone should adhere to his/her doctors advice about preventative medicine. You are absolutely in the right to listen to your doctor and your husband is being careless in not listening to him. But if your doctor sends you for a physical and four other preventative tests and sends your husband for a physical and one test. Should you both be charged identically? The notion that everyone should have a cookie cutter insurance plan and split the costs of everything equally is nonsense. It is a large part of what is driving up healthcare costs. Pay for what you use. I will pay for what I use.
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I don't know why the doctor would send me for more tests than him, unless I presented with a problem. It's not a given. I only know of two tests that doctors want women to have on a regular basis, the pap smear and the mammogram. And even those two are age-dependent.

Statistics show that women remain healthier and live longer than men. Isn't the whole point that you want healthy people in the insurance pool, to make up for those that use more than the average number of services? Yet if women have the physicals and tests suggested, they're being charged extra in the premiums. This doesn't translate to positive reinforcement.

None of this is as cut-and-dried as conservatives make it out. There are too many variables
 
Darla said:
Sorry that was my bad for allowing myself to get sucked into that. Frankly I find the idea that men shouldn't as a group, share in the cost of bearing children, to be offensive, period.
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That's okay, birth control is certainly part of the topic, just not the main topic as bravo said. And you're absolutely right, the idea of not sharing costs is offensive.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
They pay for the same insurance. The insurance covers different things because different demographic groups have different healthcare needs. It isn't a "cookie cutter" approach. You aren't covered for pap smears and mamograms and women aren't covered for prostate exams but women and men both have coverage for appropriate preventive care services.
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If we are not covered for the same things, then it is NOT the same insurance. Hence the different costs of the different insurance coverages.



Passing costs is the method by which costs are equalized. And, yes, I agree that men and women are different. The difference between you and me is that you want women to bear the higher costs for medical care that women require by virtue of being women and I don't. It isn't their fault that they were born women and have higher medical costs. Just like it isn't to your credit that you're a man and your healthcare costs are less.
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So again, why not just continue on down that slippery slope and proclaim that everyone should have the same food bill, the same energy bill, the same everything? Why stop at health insurance. Lets all just work for free and let the government tell us what we should each have.


Right. Pedicures, full foils, facials, pap smears, mamograms, pre- and post-natal care, labor and delivery, birth control. All the same, really.
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It is the same CONCEPT moron.

Call the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. I'm sure they'll make a federal case of it. You could be just the thing the male empowerment movement needs to end the years of repression and discrimination among America's grocers.
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Hilarious.
 
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