Second degree murder

[Damocles]

What if they were all black guys? What if 90% of them were black guys? What if they have all of those prior calls on tape, have listened to them all, and in each case when he was asked what race the "suspect" was, he answered "he looks black"?

Let's wait and see.

If every call he made to 911 was about black guys then it would be obvious he was a racist. I think your "what if" is a big silly nonsense question though. If that was the case we'd certainly know about it with all the media this has gotten.

Yeah, when somebody asked him what ethnicity he was he answered that he looks black. What would your answer be if somebody asked you what ethnicity he was?

 

[Onceler]

Again, taken without the 40 or so other calls from him where they guys actually got away I may even agree with you. But after understanding how often he had called where the guy got away, and the likelihood they weren't all black dudes, it just doesn't seem realistic to assume that he meant "these black guys" like you say here.

To me it's obvious that you want it to be about race but it is less than obvious that it was about that.

What about Trayvon made him suspicious-looking enough to follow?

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

If every call he made to 911 was about black guys then it would be obvious he was a racist. I think your "what if" is a big silly nonsense question though. If that was the case we'd certainly know about it with all the media this has gotten.

Yeah, when somebody asked him what ethnicity he was he answered that he looks black. What would your answer be if somebody asked you what ethnicity he was?

Would we know? The police have released all 40 prior calls from the crank to the media? I don't know. Yes, all 40 are unlikely to have been black...but it's not impossible. And it's not even necessary that all 40 have been black to make a case of profiling. What if the majority were? What if 30 were? That'd be enough. I am waiting to find out.

 

[Don Quixote]

Again, taken without the 40 or so other calls from him where they guys actually got away I may even agree with you. But after understanding how often he had called where the guy got away, and the likelihood they weren't all black dudes, it just doesn't seem realistic to assume that he meant "these black guys" like you say here.

To me it's obvious that you want it to be about race but it is less than obvious that it was about that.

my question still is, why did he decide to arm himself and go hunting in the night?

and is not the mission of a neighborhood watch to watch and report, not be a self styled vigilante?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I think there is pretty clear profiling on the tape. What is he saying w/ "these guys?" To me, it's obvious. It's "these black guys." Because he wouldn't have said that about a white guy.

You are injecting your beliefs onto him. 'These guys' could just as easily be 'these guys that keep robbing us'. You also have nothing but conjecture that he wouldn't have said the same thing about a white guy (or a Hispanic, Asian etc...). You are buying into the notion that he is racist... just as NBC and many other media outlets portrayed him. That said, unconsciously there is likely some profiling going on given that the increase in crime in the area was attributed to black men. So naturally he is going to have a tendency that way.

Some have argued that he's saying "these robbers," but again - unless Trayvon was holding a TV or emerging from someone's window, there is nothing to indicate that he's a robber. Except that he's black.

Again, you are injecting your opinion based on what we have heard. According to Zimmerman Trayvon was 'slinking around buildings'... you and I don't know, unfortunately Trayvon can't answer the allegation, so we are left with only what Zimmerman reported.

As for his 'stalking'... Keep in mind, that is what a neighborhood watch does... they watch/follow people they believe to be suspicious. They report it if they think it prudent. Which is what Zimmerman did. The accounts also vary in that Zimmerman said he was already outside of his car while talking to 9/11 and returning to it after they told him not to follow Martin. Again, we don't know. It might come out in a trial as to where they were relative to his car. I don't think we have seen anything like that reported yet.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

my question still is, why did he decide to arm himself and go hunting in the night?

and is not the mission of a neighborhood watch to watch and report, not be a self styled vigilante?

It is nonsense to believe he went 'hunting'.

He did watch. He did report. Just as he had done many other times. He also had every right to be carrying a gun.

 

[Damocles]

What about Trayvon made him suspicious-looking enough to follow?

There are many things that could have made him suspicious, first and foremost would be that he didn't recognize him as anybody that lived there. Then he described his actions that made him suspicious on the 911 tape. He wasn't acting like other people he had spotted there (in the capacity of Neighborhood Watch). I think this was likely because he didn't know the area well as he had only recently moved there with his father. Likely he was looking for street signs, etc.

The idea that the only thing that made him look suspicious was that he was "black" because he said "these guys" is IMO a jump to a conclusion against evidence to the contrary and only based on what you want to believe rather than what was actually said. But then again, I really am not sure. It's possible that he only ever called on black guys walking in his neighborhood, or that we have some actual evidence of racism other than just guessing at what he meant when he said "these guys"...

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

What if they were all black guys? What if 90% of them were black guys? What if they have all of those prior calls on tape, have listened to them all, and in each case when he was asked what race the "suspect" was, he answered "he looks black"?

Let's wait and see.

What if the majority of the crimes being committed in the neighborhood were done by black guys. Would it not make sense that a certain degree of profiling would occur?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Oh yeah, sue all four members of the new black panthers. Why I bet they are worth at least 50 bucks!

That is pretty racist of you to assume they have no money because they are black.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

That is pretty racist of you to assume they have no money because they are black.

LOL I knew you were going to say that. No, in my experience radical nuts never have money. I've known a few, believe me.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

What if the majority of the crimes being committed in the neighborhood were done by black guys. Would it not make sense that a certain degree of profiling would occur?

No.

 

[Damocles]

Would we know? The police have released all 40 prior calls from the crank to the media? I don't know. Yes, all 40 are unlikely to have been black...but it's not impossible. And it's not even necessary that all 40 have been black to make a case of profiling. What if the majority were? What if 30 were? That'd be enough. I am waiting to find out.

I'm almost certain we would know, that somebody worked that angle. Getting a records release based on something like this isn't that difficult, hence the fact we heard the 911 tape (heavily edited to make him appear racist from the get go) on NBC. Somebody wanted to know if he was racist and listened to more than one 911 tape from his calls.

 

[Don Quixote]

zimmerman overlooked one basic thing

no good deed goes unpunished

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

What about Trayvon made him suspicious-looking enough to follow?

walking around late at night in the rain. ZOMG HE WAS FOLLOWED! big fucking deal. It's not illegal to follow people. the dispatcher was even prompting him to follow him for a while when asking for a description of the suspect, where he was going, etc.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

I'm almost certain we would know, that somebody worked that angle. Getting a records release based on something like this isn't that difficult, hence the fact we heard the 911 tape (heavily edited to make him appear racist from the get go) on NBC. Somebody wanted to know if he was racist and listened to more than one 911 tape from his calls.

Well, you were almost certain that sign was photoshopped too. Still...maybe you're right. I'm sure it will come out either way. If he was always calling on white guys, the defense is going to use that. So don't worry, it all comes out in the wash.

 

[Damocles]

What if the majority of the crimes being committed in the neighborhood were done by black guys. Would it not make sense that a certain degree of profiling would occur?

If it made sense would it be right to do?

 

[Damocles]

Well, you were almost certain that sign was photoshopped too. Still...maybe you're right. I'm sure it will come out either way. If he was always calling on white guys, the defense is going to use that. So don't worry, it all comes out in the wash.

Yes, based on my previous experience with photos online of those signs, what... do you think I'm a signist now? And again, only if we actually get to see the evidence. I think the overcharging is designed to get a plea and then we'll never see what evidence would be brought for defense.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

my question still is, why did he decide to arm himself and go hunting in the night?

and is not the mission of a neighborhood watch to watch and report, not be a self styled vigilante?

we have a constitutional right to be able to arm ourselves.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

walking around late at night in the rain. ZOMG HE WAS FOLLOWED! big fucking deal. It's not illegal to follow people. the dispatcher was even prompting him to follow him for a while when asking for a description of the suspect, where he was going, etc.

Only a white man who has never been the victim of a violent crime could make the outrageous claim that it's "no big deal" to be followed at night.

That's so clueless it's not even funny.

 

[Onceler]

There are many things that could have made him suspicious, first and foremost would be that he didn't recognize him as anybody that lived there. Then he described his actions that made him suspicious on the 911 tape. He wasn't acting like other people he had spotted there (in the capacity of Neighborhood Watch). I think this was likely because he didn't know the area well as he had only recently moved there with his father. Likely he was looking for street signs, etc.

The idea that the only thing that made him look suspicious was that he was "black" because he said "these guys" is IMO a jump to a conclusion against evidence to the contrary and only based on what you want to believe rather than what was actually said. But then again, I really am not sure. It's possible that he only ever called on black guys walking in his neighborhood, or that we have some actual evidence of racism other than just guessing at what he meant when he said "these guys"...

All we're ever going to have on that is opinion. I heard the same tape that the jurors are going to hear; they'll have their opinion on it, just like I have mine. I'm sure the GZ defense team will have their own reasons for why GZ followed him that night, and they won't be "because he was black."

To me, that was exactly what it sounded like - he wasn't following a "robber," because Trayvon hadn't robbed anything. To me, it's very obvious profiling - but I'm also someone who believes that we ALL profile to a certain extent. Most are more likely to cross to the other side of the street if they see a group of black youths as opposed to white youths, for example. That is something that is fairly easy to hear on the tape, imo, regardless of the race of the 40 guys he reported before.