The 86 million invisible unemployed

[Banned]

GM reported another expectation-exceeding profit just today. The Treasury recently reported that taxpayers will end up profiting on TARP.

So, you were wrong.

Last I hjeard we are stuck with a bunch of junk mortgage packages that we will lose our butts on unless the market goes to 20K or somesuch.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

Maybe it would force manufacturing to return here?

Ummm there is a reason manufacturing left. Unskilled line workers wanting the same pay as highly skilled workers lead to outsourcing and automation. Plus the emergence of multiple skillsets means that those who ARE skilled must be multiskilled in the current environment if they want to retain their job.

 

[Banned]

It would. But it would come at a very high price. The average person would not be able to afford the amenities we have become accustomed to. Everything would inflate drastically in price. It would also hurt our exports as other countries would retaliate. Which ends up diminishing sales for everyone. Which puts people out of work. It was tried before. Tariff wars are insane. They benefit no one.

And unfettered global trade benefits the poorer and the 1%.

 

[NOVA]

The same one where the economy was losing trillions in a few short months because the market was crashing and investors had zero confidence, at the same time that businesses were slashing their workforces and cutting spending, leading to consumers reigning in their spending as well.

I think, given the nature of the crash, that millions of job losses were inevitable. I also believe that the government's power is much more limited in a global economy such as we have, and that the millions of jobs created by the stimulus were probably around what we could hope for from gov't action.

Also, are you generally aware that the stimulus was actually 1/3 tax cuts and incentives, and that liberals hated Obama for compromising so much w/ the GOP?

All the gov't could do in the circumstances was stop the bleeding, and give the market & private sector a chance to catch its breath. I think they did that - not as effectively as most would like, but given the timeframe, I think they did okay. I never expected the gov't to be able to get everyone back to work; just to turn the tide.

And yeah - it was worth the investment. Again, the economy was losing trillions, and the market was plummeting (and yes, that does = job losses). By comparison, the stimulus was cheap.

What flavor is that Koolade you're addicted to......Blackberry or Blueberry......or both ?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Now, you're moving the goalposts back.

I think you are simply drunk and that is why you think the goalposts are moving.

Everything I said is 100% fact. GM is reporting profit today that exceeded expectations. The Treasury reported last month that the taxpayers will end up profiting on TARP.

You can call the GM report a lie, and say that the Treasury is fabricating stuff. I don't really care.

LMAO... ok... you stated a fact. GM did indeed report profits above average expectations. They also announced that they underperformed expectations in earnings in N. America and that Europe was going to result in continued losses. They also stated in that same report that the outlook for the next six months was not going to be as good as expected.

Everything I stated is also 100% fact. GM's bailout is going to result in a loss to taxpayers. The TARP money that has been 'repaid' is nowhere to be seen. Nor are the imaginary profits Geithner proclaims exist for taxpayers. But I know... you were just reporting the 'fact' that Treasury reported it. You had no intention of discussing the validity of your masters administrations comments.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

And unfettered global trade benefits the poorer and the 1%.

No one said it should be unfettered. Global trade benefits every country. Having an increasing middle class in places like India and China benefits the US.

The insane notion that people should have the same types of jobs available to them that their parents had or that they themselves had 5/10/20 years ago is absurd.

 

[NOVA]

Now, you're moving the goalposts back.

Everything I said is 100% fact. GM is reporting profit today that exceeded expectations. The Treasury reported last month that the taxpayers will end up profiting on TARP.

You can call the GM report a lie, and say that the Treasury is fabricating stuff. I don't really care.

There expectations must have pathetically low......at least in the US

 

[Onceler]

There expectations must have pathetically low......at least in the US

You spelled "there" incorrectly. I think you want "their"....

 

[NOVA]

No one said it should be unfettered. Global trade benefits every country. Having an increasing middle class in places like India and China benefits the US.

The insane notion that people should have the same types of jobs available to them that their parents had or that they themselves had 5/10/20 years ago is absurd.

That kind of global trade may benefit the Corporations, but not employment in this country........building a middle class in India and China benefits mostly India and China......

 

[Banned]

No one said it should be unfettered. Global trade benefits every country. Having an increasing middle class in places like India and China benefits the US.

The insane notion that people should have the same types of jobs available to them that their parents had or that they themselves had 5/10/20 years ago is absurd.

Umm the median lifestyle rises in China and India and drops here. It is the inevitable resault of global trade.
We meet in the middle somewhere.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

You know the market; GM still has a long way to go to rebuild credibility w/ investors. That has nothing to do w/ the fact that bailing them out was the right thing to do (which you seem to agree with, sometimes, when you're not rushing to the aid of Damo), and likely saved millions of jobs...

I do think it was a necessary evil to bail them out. But to hype their so called 'success' in light of the losses to taxpayers is comical at best. Just as it is comical for the treasury to pretend that TARP is going to benefit taxpayers given they can't even tell us where that 'repaid' money is. So, if you are done rushing to defend and apologize for Obama, perhaps you can turn back to reality.

As for the stock price, yes credibility is an issue to an extent, especially given the direction GM is looking to head right now. Losing market share and not being able to shut down plants in Europe in addition to slowing demand expectations is keeping the price down.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Umm the median lifestyle rises in China and India and drops here. It is the inevitable resault of global trade.
We meet in the middle somewhere.

That is not true. That same nonsense was stated domestically that the wealthy could not gain ground without hurting the poor and middle class. The pie is not a set size. It can continue to grow on the whole. We can rise right alongside them.

 

[Banned]

No one said it should be unfettered. Global trade benefits every country. Having an increasing middle class in places like India and China benefits the US.

The insane notion that people should have the same types of jobs available to them that their parents had or that they themselves had 5/10/20 years ago is absurd.

Yep we swapped over to a debtor nation with a consumer spending driven economy under Reagan and it has been slowly downhill for the middle class ever since.
Be satisfied with retail sales jobs or else starve.

 

[Bonestorm]

I do think it was a necessary evil to bail them out. But to hype their so called 'success' in light of the losses to taxpayers is comical at best. Just as it is comical for the treasury to pretend that TARP is going to benefit taxpayers given they can't even tell us where that 'repaid' money is. So, if you are done rushing to defend and apologize for Obama, perhaps you can turn back to reality.

GM wasn't bailed out based on the fact that it was a sound investment that would result in gains. You're employing a metric of "success" that is a tad high given the circumstances of the bail out.

 

[Onceler]

I do think it was a necessary evil to bail them out. But to hype their so called 'success' in light of the losses to taxpayers is comical at best. Just as it is comical for the treasury to pretend that TARP is going to benefit taxpayers given they can't even tell us where that 'repaid' money is. So, if you are done rushing to defend and apologize for Obama, perhaps you can turn back to reality.

As for the stock price, yes credibility is an issue to an extent, especially given the direction GM is looking to head right now. Losing market share and not being able to shut down plants in Europe in addition to slowing demand expectations is keeping the price down.

Like I said, if you want to discredit the Treasury, have at it. To me, it's comical to talk about a stock price when the market is still recovering, and discount the ripple effect that GM failing would have had on these taxpayers you seem so concerned about. The bailout was basically chump change (and you ridiculed a recent similar amount that was presented in a separate argument as "paltry", so no double-standards for you today).

As for apologizing for Obama...have I even mentioned Obama on the thread?

 

[NOVA]

You spelled "there" incorrectly. I think you want "their"....

No....maybe I should have said, There, at GM, so you would understand....thanks anyway.

 

[Phantasmal]

That is not true. That same nonsense was stated domestically that the wealthy could not gain ground without hurting the poor and middle class. The pie is not a set size. It can continue to grow on the whole. We can rise right alongside them.

I do not see how a small percentage holding most of the wealth benefits society. It seems to me that this is what has caused stagnation.

 

[NOVA]

I do not see how a small percentage holding most of the wealth benefits society. It seems to me that this is what has caused stagnation.

Other people's money doesn't effect you at all......not one iota......what I or John Kerry or Nancy Pelosi or Mr. Romney has is of no concern of yours.....

What they have benefits them, as its meant to, not society

 

[Phantasmal]

Other people's money doesn't effect you at all......not one iota......what I or John Kerry or Nancy Pelosi or Mr. Romney has is of no concern of yours.....

What they have benefits them, as its meant to, not society

Okay, try to make money without society. Good luck!

 

[Banned]

We have always had and will have a society of some type.