A brief history of Hell

[Phantasmal]

The modern Christian (New Testament) view of Hell is completely different from the Jewish (Old Testament) view.

"Hell" isn't mentioned in the Old Testament because Jews didn't believe in an afterlife outside of Earth. Jews believe in a sort of dark/shady place called Sheol where you went after death, while waiting for God to return Earth to recreate his literal, physical "Kingdom".

Hell is a New Testament idea that was likely the creation of Pagan Greeks who converted to Christianity. Even New Testament writers/Christians can't really agree on what it means to go to Hell. Hell is generally described as a lake of fire where the naughty people are sent to be destroyed, not tortured for eternity. The Apocalypse of Peter, which didn't make the final cut for entry into the Bible, is the only writing that really gets into detail about hell and really pushes the eternal torture idea. Bad people are hung by their tongues, genitals, hair, etc over fire for eternity.

In general Jews believed:

- Believers don't go to Heaven - Heaven is where God lives.
- When you die, you go to a dark, shady place while waiting for God to return to earth. There was no hell or eternal torture.
- When God returns to Earth, it was to return the Earth to pre- "The Fall", aka pre-Adam and Eve eating the apple. When this happened, there will be no hunger, disease, pain, suffering, etc... but this was a literal Kingdom on Earth, not in Heaven.

In general, Christians believe:
- When you die, you either go to Heaven with God (This is the Christian version of the "Kingdom of God") or Hell for eternal torture, though some Christians do believe in Hell as generally described in the New Testament and by Jesus. That hell isn't where naughty people go to be tortured for eternity, but where they are destroyed in the eternal lake of fire.

There are four words used in the Bible in reference to the one word used for all in the KJV of the Bible. All have different meanings but are interpreted as hell. The Bible does not give a definitive answer about the subject.

 

[Cypress]

There are four words used in the Bible in reference to the one word used for all in the KJV of the Bible. All have different meanings but are interpreted as hell. The Bible does not give a definitive answer about the subject.

Thanks, didn't know that

 

[NiftyNiblick]

I recognize and acknowledge that many people and animals appear to be "suffering" greatly, but I am unwilling to make guesses about why that is happening...or even if it is happening.

Very interest point, Frank, which shows how different eyes can look at the same thing, yet see totally different things.

For me, the fact that so much suffering takes place, regardless of what my personal situation might be,
clearly illustrates that the universe is not the creation of a deity but rather a totally random manifestation.

I'm much less reticent to draw conclusions from my observations,
and that's been at different times, admittedly, both an asset and a liability.

 

[Ross Dolan]

You finally are smartening up huh Frankie?

You don't know the first thing about my life Frankie but like a good little leftist stooge you make claims based on what little is in your head. To those with eyes the separation from God is everywhere. The reason you disagree is because you know the shit you peddle will only lead you to even further separation from God but what others think of you matters more to you than what God thinks of you. I mean I'll pray for you but only God is going to be able you Francis.

Interesting guesses you are making that a god exists...and that I am supposed to have what that god wants of me to be more important than what I want for me.

Doesn't sound like much of a god to me...but if that is your guess, fne with me.

Sorry it bothers you so much that it SEEMS TO ME that you are commenting about your life when you say that hell is all around us. My guess is that many here got that same impression when reading that particular statement, but I acknowledge that I may be wrong.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Very interest point, Frank, which shows how different eyes can look at the same thing, yet see totally different things.

For me, the fact that so much suffering takes place, regardless of what my personal situation might be,
clearly illustrates that the universe is not the creation of a deity but rather a totally random manifestation.

I'm much less reticent to draw conclusions from my observations,
and that's been at different times, admittedly, both an asset and a liability.

I was not able to thank you for this comment, Nifty. There was no "thanks" button.So I am doing so by posting the thanks.

 

[Cypress]

My knowledge of the Russian/Greek Orthodox Churches is very limited but my understanding is that they are closely aligned with Catholicism, not Protestantism. I've read that there are up to 2000 denominations of Protestants.

As far as I know they don't consider the Bible the sole religious authority the way Protestants do, they don't read the Bible as literally, and they have most of the same sacraments.

 

[ZenMode]

There are four words used in the Bible in reference to the one word used for all in the KJV of the Bible. All have different meanings but are interpreted as hell. The Bible does not give a definitive answer about the subject.

If you were to present that claim to Biblical scholars, I think you'd receive a lot of push back because of the very different descriptions of some of them. There's really no comparison between Sheol/Hades and the Christian hell.

 

[Phantasmal]

If you were to present that claim to Biblical scholars, I think you'd receive a lot of push back.

Nope, it is from Bible scholars that I have read the claim

Tartarus
Sheol
Hades
Gehenna

All are translated as “hell”, but all have different meaning.

Scholars who say the modern concept of hell is not Biblical are too numerous to mention here.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

As far as I know they don't consider the Bible the sole religious authority the way Protestants do, they don't read the Bible as literally, and they have most of the same sacraments.

I don't know. I do know Catholics used to be pretty big on crusades.

 

[Cypress]

Nope, it is from Bible scholars that I have read the claim

Tartarus
Sheol
Hades
Gehenna

All are translated as “hell”, but all have different meaning.

Scholars who say the modern concept of hell is not Biblical are too numerous to mention here.

I like your brain

The only people willing to spend eight years in school learning Greek, Latin, Hebrew and the craft of biblical exeget are biblical scholars.

 

[Phantasmal]

I like your brain

The only people willing to spend eight years in school learning Greek, Latin, Hebrew and the craft of biblical exeget are biblical scholars.

Thanks

I studied hell a great deal because it was the hardest concept for me to reason.

The idea of a loving God torturing sinful humans for eternity didn’t line up.

 

[Cypress]

The modern Christian (New Testament) view of Hell is completely different from the Jewish (Old Testament) view.

"Hell" isn't mentioned in the Old Testament because Jews didn't believe in an afterlife outside of Earth. Jews believe in a sort of dark/shady place called Sheol where you went after death, while waiting for God to return Earth to recreate his literal, physical "Kingdom".

Hell is a New Testament idea that was likely the creation of Pagan Greeks who converted to Christianity. Even New Testament writers/Christians can't really agree on what it means to go to Hell. Hell is generally described as a lake of fire where the naughty people are sent to be destroyed, not tortured for eternity. The Apocalypse of Peter, which didn't make the final cut for entry into the Bible, is the only writing that really gets into detail about hell and really pushes the eternal torture idea. Bad people are hung by their tongues, genitals, hair, etc over fire for eternity.

In general Jews believed:

- Believers don't go to Heaven - Heaven is where God lives.
- When you die, you go to a dark, shady place while waiting for God to return to earth. There was no hell or eternal torture.
- When God returns to Earth, it was to return the Earth to pre- "The Fall", aka pre-Adam and Eve eating the apple. When this happened, there will be no hunger, disease, pain, suffering, etc... but this was a literal Kingdom on Earth, not in Heaven.

In general, Christians believe:
- When you die, you either go to Heaven with God (This is the Christian version of the "Kingdom of God") or Hell for eternal torture, though some Christians do believe in Hell as generally described in the New Testament and by Jesus. That hell isn't where naughty people go to be tortured for eternity, but where they are destroyed in the eternal lake of fire.

I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough to have the definitive answer for the Christian concept of hell.

I am pretty sure Jesus and Paul would not recognize what we conceive of as hell. For the most part, western concepts of hell probably come to us from Augustine and Dante.

 

[Cypress]

Thanks

I studied hell a great deal because it was the hardest concept for me to reason.

The idea of a loving God torturing sinful humans for eternity didn’t line up.

It doesn't make sense. That's probably why the Catholic Church came up with the concept of Limbo, where the virtuous pagans and unbaptized babies go.


I personally am not too bothered in principle by the concept of Hitler and Stalin paying their dues in an afterlife

 

[Ross Dolan]

It doesn't make sense. That's probably why the Catholic Church came up with the concept of Limbo, where the virtuous pagans and unbaptized babies go.


I personally am not too bothered in principle by the concept of Hitler and Stalin paying their dues in an afterlife

Talk about something that does not make sense! That idea of Limbo as a place where one does not suffer at all...BUT is subjected to most torturous aspect of hell, namely the denial of the beatific vision...vision of god.

It makes no sense.

The entire concept of the Abrahamic god makes no sense to me, although I cannot say that it is not the reality. My guess is that it is not...but I have often been wrong with my guesses, as I was when my guess was that the GIANTS would beat the Jets this Sunday. Goddam Jets got lucky!

 

[BidenPresident]

Talk about something that does not make sense! That idea of Limbo as a place where one does not suffer at all...BUT is subjected to most torturous aspect of hell, namely the denial of the beatific vision...vision of god.

It makes no sense.

The entire concept of the Abrahamic god makes no sense to me, although I cannot say that it is not the reality. My guess is that it is not...but I have often been wrong with my guesses, as I was when my guess was that the GIANTS would beat the Jets this Sunday. Goddam Jets got lucky!

You must have been poorly educated. Ever hear of something called reason?

 

[Cypress]

Talk about something that does not make sense! That idea of Limbo as a place where one does not suffer at all...BUT is subjected to most torturous aspect of hell, namely the denial of the beatific vision...vision of god.

It makes no sense.

The entire concept of the Abrahamic god makes no sense to me, although I cannot say that it is not the reality. My guess is that it is not...but I have often been wrong with my guesses, as I was when my guess was that the GIANTS would beat the Jets this Sunday. Goddam Jets got lucky!

Limbo was probably the most interesting place in Dante, because there you could meet the Roman poets, the Greek philosophers, the virtuous Islamic scholars, the Homeric-age heroes.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

A brief history of hell

Hell is mentioned sparingly in the Bible, with many references being either ambiguous or mistranslations. Each era since has refashioned hell in its own image, for better and for worse.

Given its prominence in imagery and storytelling, it is surprising that hell doesn’t appear much in the Bible. In fact, most of its references to Satan’s scorching domain are the result of later translators mapping their views onto older, and quite distinct, concepts of the afterlife. This means hell as we understand it today is an afterlife the biblical writers had no real conception of.

In the Old Testament, Sheol is a far cry from hell. Rather than a realm designed to punish sinners, Sheol is a place where all souls congregate and exist in listless nothingness. There is no pain or suffering, but neither is there joy or celebration.

Even in the New Testament, references to hell are sparse. Jesus, Christianity’s central figure, and Saint Paul, its founding missionary, did preach about existential comeuppance. But in our earliest Christian writings — Paul’s epistles and the Gospels of Mark and Matthew — neither warned of a hellfire awaiting sinners.

The fate befalling those who turned their backs on God wouldn’t be an eternal sentence. They would simply be annihilated. Many of Jesus’ parables warn of this.

This appears to have been the teaching of both Paul and Jesus. But it was eventually changed by later Christians, who came to affirm not only eternal joy for the saints but eternal torment for the sinners, creating the irony that throughout the ages most Christians have believed in a hell that did not exist for either of the founders of Christianity,”

How interesting. Guno has talked about afterlife beliefs of his people too.

Now to solve the age-old question: Was Hell invented in order to scare people into behaving, or was it created in order to express our fondest human wish that bad guys will roast in Hell forever? Or both?

 

[evince]

A brief history of hell

Hell is mentioned sparingly in the Bible, with many references being either ambiguous or mistranslations. Each era since has refashioned hell in its own image, for better and for worse.

Given its prominence in imagery and storytelling, it is surprising that hell doesn’t appear much in the Bible. In fact, most of its references to Satan’s scorching domain are the result of later translators mapping their views onto older, and quite distinct, concepts of the afterlife. This means hell as we understand it today is an afterlife the biblical writers had no real conception of.

In the Old Testament, Sheol is a far cry from hell. Rather than a realm designed to punish sinners, Sheol is a place where all souls congregate and exist in listless nothingness. There is no pain or suffering, but neither is there joy or celebration.

Even in the New Testament, references to hell are sparse. Jesus, Christianity’s central figure, and Saint Paul, its founding missionary, did preach about existential comeuppance. But in our earliest Christian writings — Paul’s epistles and the Gospels of Mark and Matthew — neither warned of a hellfire awaiting sinners.

The fate befalling those who turned their backs on God wouldn’t be an eternal sentence. They would simply be annihilated. Many of Jesus’ parables warn of this.

This appears to have been the teaching of both Paul and Jesus. But it was eventually changed by later Christians, who came to affirm not only eternal joy for the saints but eternal torment for the sinners, creating the irony that throughout the ages most Christians have believed in a hell that did not exist for either of the founders of Christianity,”

Sheol survivor



A great name for a band

 

[IBDaMann]

If you were to present that claim to Biblical scholars, I think you'd receive a lot of push back

What do you imagine constitutes a Biblical "scholar"?

 

[NiftyNiblick]

I personally am not too bothered in principle by the concept of Hitler and Stalin paying their dues in an afterlife

If I believed in an afterlife,

I would still be troubled by how ANYBODY could earn ETERNAL DAMNATION

over the course of a finite lifetime.

That wouldn't be just. Eternity is never ending, with or without an afterlife.