A complete asshole, or the last war of the Russian Empire

[Scott]

Putin talks about his readiness for negotiations and orders to bomb Kyiv.

Putin, and Russia more generally, is certainly ready to negotiate a deal that they think is fair. Ukraine is not yet ready for negotiations. As a matter of fact, Zelensky made a law expressly forbidding anyone in the Ukrainian government from negotiating with Russia:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/zelenskiy-decree-rules-out-ukraine-talks-with-putin-impossible-2022-10-04/

Until Zelensky removes that law, negotiating with Ukraine is clearly impossible and Russia is right to pursue what a Star Wars film once called "Aggressive negotiations- negotiations with a light saber".

Putin wants war and all of Ukraine.

I've seen no evidence of this. What Putin, and Russia more generally wants, is a deal wherein Russia doesn't feel threatened by its neighbour and where the Russian speaking people that were in territories formerly controlled in Ukraine, as well as Russian speaking people who are still in areas controlled by Ukraine, are treated with respect.

For this reason, he refuses a 30-day ceasefire.

No, he refuses a 30-day ceasefire because this would just give time for Ukraine's military to regroup and get additional supplies to continue the war in 30 days time. This wouldn't be the first time that Ukraine has done this- it already did this after the first and the second Minsk agreements. Angela Merkel, who was German Chancellor at the time of these agreements, even admitted as much:

Angela Merkel admits that the Minsk agreements were only signed to give Ukraine time - Donbass Insider

Angela Merkel said that the Minsk agreements were not signed to be implemented but to give Ukraine time.

www.donbass-insider.com

In this situation, the EU is forced to increase aid to Ukraine and impose new sanctions against Russia.

Forced no, but it may well do these things. Russia is prepared for this. As I've said many times in the past, I strongly believe that this war will end in 1 of 2 ways:
either Russia will achieve its objectives or there will be a nuclear war. I know that I much prefer the first option.

 

[Alik Bahshi]

/I

Putin, and Russia more generally, is certainly ready to negotiate a deal that they think is fair. Ukraine is not yet ready for negotiations. As a matter of fact, Zelensky made a law expressly forbidding anyone in the Ukrainian government from negotiating with Russia:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/zelenskiy-decree-rules-out-ukraine-talks-with-putin-impossible-2022-10-04/

Until Zelensky removes that law, negotiating with Ukraine is clearly impossible and Russia is right to pursue what a Star Wars film once called "Aggressive negotiations- negotiations with a light saber".



I've seen no evidence of this. What Putin, and Russia more generally wants, is a deal wherein Russia doesn't feel threatened by its neighbour and where the Russian speaking people that were in territories formerly controlled in Ukraine, as well as Russian speaking people who are still in areas controlled by Ukraine, are treated with respect.



No, he refuses a 30-day ceasefire because this would just give time for Ukraine's military to regroup and get additional supplies to continue the war in 30 days time. This wouldn't be the first time that Ukraine has done this- it already did this after the first and the second Minsk agreements. Angela Merkel, who was German Chancellor at the time of these agreements, even admitted as much:

Angela Merkel admits that the Minsk agreements were only signed to give Ukraine time - Donbass Insider

Angela Merkel said that the Minsk agreements were not signed to be implemented but to give Ukraine time.

www.donbass-insider.com

Forced no, but it may well do these things. Russia is prepared for this. As I've said many times in the past, I strongly believe that this war will end in 1 of 2 ways:
either Russia will achieve its objectives or there will be a nuclear war. I know that I much prefer the first option.

The point is that Putin sets preconditions that are unacceptable for Ukraine. At the same time, Ukraine agrees to a 30-day ceasefire, but Putin does not want this, citing that Ukraine will use the break to receive aid. On the other hand, a ceasefire will give a chance to start negotiations if Putin does not set preconditions for Russia to leave the occupied territories.

 

[Scott]

Putin, and Russia more generally, is certainly ready to negotiate a deal that they think is fair. Ukraine is not yet ready for negotiations. As a matter of fact, Zelensky made a law expressly forbidding anyone in the Ukrainian government from negotiating with Russia:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/zelenskiy-decree-rules-out-ukraine-talks-with-putin-impossible-2022-10-04/

Until Zelensky removes that law, negotiating with Ukraine is clearly impossible and Russia is right to pursue what a Star Wars film once called "Aggressive negotiations- negotiations with a light saber".



I've seen no evidence of this. What Putin, and Russia more generally wants, is a deal wherein Russia doesn't feel threatened by its neighbour and where the Russian speaking people that were in territories formerly controlled in Ukraine, as well as Russian speaking people who are still in areas controlled by Ukraine, are treated with respect.



No, he refuses a 30-day ceasefire because this would just give time for Ukraine's military to regroup and get additional supplies to continue the war in 30 days time. This wouldn't be the first time that Ukraine has done this- it already did this after the first and the second Minsk agreements. Angela Merkel, who was German Chancellor at the time of these agreements, even admitted as much:

Angela Merkel admits that the Minsk agreements were only signed to give Ukraine time - Donbass Insider

Angela Merkel said that the Minsk agreements were not signed to be implemented but to give Ukraine time.

www.donbass-insider.com

Forced no, but it may well do these things. Russia is prepared for this. As I've said many times in the past, I strongly believe that this war will end in 1 of 2 ways:
either Russia will achieve its objectives or there will be a nuclear war. I know that I much prefer the first option.

The point is that Putin sets preconditions that are unacceptable for Ukraine.

I'm beginning to think the word "preconditions" is a bit extraneous. Why not just "conditions"? In any case, I think that Russia's been pretty clear as to what it needs in order to accept a peace deal. Its requirements have grown since April 2022, as it's now acquired a lot more land, but other than that, it seems to be about the same as then. From what I see, the alternative is that Ukraine loses even more land then it has already.

At the same time, Ukraine agrees to a 30-day ceasefire, but Putin does not want this, citing that Ukraine will use the break to receive aid.\

Do you disagree with Putin's logic?

On the other hand, a ceasefire will give a chance to start negotiations if Putin does not set preconditions for Russia to leave the occupied territories.

I think what you're saying is that you'd like Russia to leave the regions where it held referendums and where the people therein decided to join Russia. That's just not happening. The sooner Ukraine and the west realizes this, the better. Why? Because the longer they dither on coming to the negotiating table, the less land Ukraine is likely to end up with. And ofcourse more people will die as well.

 

[Alik Bahshi]

Zelensky is ready for a personal meeting with Putin in Istanbul. The question is whether Putin will agree? After all, Putin is not ready for a personal meeting with Zelensky.

 

[Scott]

Zelensky is ready for a personal meeting with Putin in Istanbul. The question is whether Putin will agree? After all, Putin is not ready for a personal meeting with Zelensky.

I hadn't heard of this, I see it now:

MSN

Well, we'll see if Putin responds. Though honestly, I don't see why Zelensky needs to meet Putin personally to start negotiations. Neither Putin or Zelensky are diplomats. Diplomats are generally the ones who work out agreements at the negotiating table, not Presidents.

 

[Hawkeye10]

https://x.com/battleforeurope

I hadn't heard of this, I see it now:

MSN

Well, we'll see if Putin responds. Though honestly, I don't see why Zelensky needs to meet Putin personally to start negotiations. Neither Putin or Zelensky are diplomats. Diplomats are generally the ones who work out agreements at the negotiating table, not Presidents.

Its a ploy.....the Imperial Empire has not suffered enough.....they have no interest in peace....yet.

Z is an actor working for the Empire....mostly through the Brits.

He says what he is told to say.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Though it is interesting that the Z non apology apology letter sent to Trump after the oval office show was written by the French.

 

[Scott]

https://x.com/battleforeurope

Its a ploy.....the Imperial Empire has not suffered enough.....they have no interest in peace....yet.

Z is an actor working for the Empire....mostly through the Brits.

He says what he is told to say.

It -seems- that Zelensky decided to offer this because of Trump's pressuring him to do it. Here's what the article I linked to in my previous post said:
**
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky says is he ready to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin "personally" in Istanbul on Thursday for talks over ending the war.

His post came shortly after Donald Trump demanded Ukraine agree to Putin's offer of direct talks between the two countries in Turkey.

"There is no point in prolonging the killings. And I will be waiting for Putin in Türkiye on Thursday. Personally," Zelensky wrote.

He had earlier said his country was open to talks with Russia but only after a ceasefire was in place.

Western powers have called for a 30-day pause in fighting to begin on Monday after European leaders spearheading the so-called "coalition of the willing" met in Kyiv on Saturday.

Putin's offer of direct talks followed that intervention.

On Sunday Trump then posted on social media that Ukraine should agree to this "immediately" and it would provide clarity on whether there was a way to end the war.

"At least they will be able to determine whether or not a deal is possible, and if it is not, European leaders, and the US, will know where everything stands, and can proceed accordingly" he said, adding: "Have the meeting, now!"
**

Source:

MSN

I -suspect- that Trump realizes that he's now got more problems then he can handle. Tariffs, wars all over the place, etc. So he seems to be trying to at least finish off the war in Ukraine. His diplomatic skills are pretty bad, but he at least seems to be trying.

 

[Hawkeye10]

It -seems- that Zelensky decided to offer this because of Trump's pressuring him to do it. Here's what the article I linked to in my previous post said:
**
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky says is he ready to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin "personally" in Istanbul on Thursday for talks over ending the war.

His post came shortly after Donald Trump demanded Ukraine agree to Putin's offer of direct talks between the two countries in Turkey.

"There is no point in prolonging the killings. And I will be waiting for Putin in Türkiye on Thursday. Personally," Zelensky wrote.

He had earlier said his country was open to talks with Russia but only after a ceasefire was in place.

Western powers have called for a 30-day pause in fighting to begin on Monday after European leaders spearheading the so-called "coalition of the willing" met in Kyiv on Saturday.

Putin's offer of direct talks followed that intervention.

On Sunday Trump then posted on social media that Ukraine should agree to this "immediately" and it would provide clarity on whether there was a way to end the war.

"At least they will be able to determine whether or not a deal is possible, and if it is not, European leaders, and the US, will know where everything stands, and can proceed accordingly" he said, adding: "Have the meeting, now!"
**

Source:

MSN

I -suspect- that Trump realizes that he's now got more problems then he can handle. Tariffs, wars all over the place, etc. So he seems to be trying to at least finish off the war in Ukraine. His diplomatic skills are pretty bad, but he at least seems to be trying.

I reject your claim because Z is an actor working off of the scripts he is given.

 

[Hawkeye10]

As Ukraine is destroyed and so far 1.4 million have been fed into the meat grinders Z works for the people who pay him.

Come on People.....

 

[Scott]

It -seems- that Zelensky decided to offer this because of Trump's pressuring him to do it. Here's what the article I linked to in my previous post said:
**
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky says is he ready to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin "personally" in Istanbul on Thursday for talks over ending the war.

His post came shortly after Donald Trump demanded Ukraine agree to Putin's offer of direct talks between the two countries in Turkey.

"There is no point in prolonging the killings. And I will be waiting for Putin in Türkiye on Thursday. Personally," Zelensky wrote.

He had earlier said his country was open to talks with Russia but only after a ceasefire was in place.

Western powers have called for a 30-day pause in fighting to begin on Monday after European leaders spearheading the so-called "coalition of the willing" met in Kyiv on Saturday.

Putin's offer of direct talks followed that intervention.

On Sunday Trump then posted on social media that Ukraine should agree to this "immediately" and it would provide clarity on whether there was a way to end the war.

"At least they will be able to determine whether or not a deal is possible, and if it is not, European leaders, and the US, will know where everything stands, and can proceed accordingly" he said, adding: "Have the meeting, now!"
**

Source:

MSN

I -suspect- that Trump realizes that he's now got more problems then he can handle. Tariffs, wars all over the place, etc. So he seems to be trying to at least finish off the war in Ukraine. His diplomatic skills are pretty bad, but he at least seems to be trying.

I reject your claim because Z is an actor working off of the scripts he is given.

Zelensky certainly -was- an actor, as well as a comedian, but this notion that he's "working off of... scripts he is given" isn't something I've seen any evidence of. I think he's made choices that he thought were best for himself and those he loved. I certainly don't think he's always made the best choices and things may end very badly for him and even for many who he cares about, but I -hope- that near the end, he realizes that the best thing for -Ukraine- is to make a deal with Russia as soon as possible. We'll see how that goes.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Zelensky certainly -was- an actor, as well as a comedian, but this notion that he's "working off of... scripts he is given" isn't something I've seen any evidence of. I think he's made choices that he thought were best for himself and those he loved. I certainly don't think he's always made the best choices and things may end very badly for him and even for many who he cares about, but I -hope- that near the end, he realizes that the best thing for -Ukraine- is to make a deal with Russia as soon as possible. We'll see how that goes.

That he signed a letter written by the French claiming it as his own is not in dispute.

 

[EdwinA]

shove your deep state boneheaded maidan revolution up your deep state asshole, fool.

Yes, why pay attention to what Putin himself has repeatedly said when you can parrot libertoon isolationist dumbassery on da innernetz?

 

[Scott]

Zelensky certainly -was- an actor, as well as a comedian, but this notion that he's "working off of... scripts he is given" isn't something I've seen any evidence of. I think he's made choices that he thought were best for himself and those he loved. I certainly don't think he's always made the best choices and things may end very badly for him and even for many who he cares about, but I -hope- that near the end, he realizes that the best thing for -Ukraine- is to make a deal with Russia as soon as possible. We'll see how that goes.

That he signed a letter written by the French claiming it as his own is not in dispute.

I imagine you're referring to this:

France helped Zelensky with a letter to Trump after the altercation, writes Politico

MOSCOW, April 16 - RIA Novosti. French diplomats took part in the preparation of Vladimir Zelensky's letter to US President Donald Trump, which would help restore relations after the altercation in the Oval Office on February 28...

france.news-pravda.com

Getting help from France on a letter doesn't mean that he's just 'working off of scripts'. As I've said before, I definitely think he's made some pretty bad decisions, but there's a difference between making bad decisions doesn't mean he's just actor following someone else's lines.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I imagine you're referring to this:

France helped Zelensky with a letter to Trump after the altercation, writes Politico

MOSCOW, April 16 - RIA Novosti. French diplomats took part in the preparation of Vladimir Zelensky's letter to US President Donald Trump, which would help restore relations after the altercation in the Oval Office on February 28...

france.news-pravda.com

Getting help from France on a letter doesn't mean that he's just 'working off of scripts'. As I've said before, I definitely think he's made some pretty bad decisions, but there's a difference between making bad decisions doesn't mean he's just actor following someone else's lines.

Getting help is not what I hear happened.

Remember that the Russians are very polite.

 

[Hawkeye10]

In this sort of situation the Russians are not going to make an accusation....they are not thugs.

"The Americans we can to some extent forgive, they are idiots.....The Europeans however know us"

 

[Hawkeye10]

The Russians are the Good Guys in this story....doing Gods Work.

Evil Must Not Stand.

 

[Alik Bahshi]

I hadn't heard of this, I see it now:

MSN

Well, we'll see if Putin responds. Though honestly, I don't see why Zelensky needs to meet Putin personally to start negotiations. Neither Putin or Zelensky are diplomats. Diplomats are generally the ones who work out agreements at the negotiating table, not Presidents.

Zelensky's meeting with Putin will of course yield nothing. Putin wants at least to leave all occupied territories for Russia. Zelensky demands the withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine. Moreover, Russia must pay for all the damage inflicted on Ukraine. In other words, Putin will have to admit defeat, which is fatal for Putin as a politician. After which he will face a tribunal.

 

[Scott]

Zelensky's meeting with Putin will of course yield nothing.

Perhaps. At this point, it may not even happen. As I've said, I think diplomats are better for negotiations, not Presidents.

Putin wants at least to leave all occupied territories for Russia.

As I imagine you know, Russia held referendums in the 4 regions it mainly controls wherein the populations ostensibly voted to join Russia in their majorities, so yes, it's highly unlikely that Russia will give any of that up.

Zelensky demands the withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine. Moreover, Russia must pay for all the damage inflicted on Ukraine. In other words, Putin will have to admit defeat, which is fatal for Putin as a politician. After which he will face a tribunal.

At some point, Ukraine and the west are going to have to start being realistic about what they can accomplish. As Hawkeye has said, generally speaking, the one that can make demands that are actually likely to be granted is the side that is -winning-. That side is not Ukraine. Every day, they -lose- more territory. The longer Ukraine waits to get back to the negotiating table, the less land it will likely have by the end of the conflict. I hear that Zelensky's going to Turkey to try to work something out:

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/starting-to-doubt-trump-says-ukraine-may-not-make-deal-with-putin-in-turkey-101747015720881.html

Here's to hoping something good comes of it.

 

[Alik Bahshi]

Perhaps. At this point, it may not even happen. As I've said, I think diplomats are better for negotiations, not Presidents.



As I imagine you know, Russia held referendums in the 4 regions it mainly controls wherein the populations ostensibly voted to join Russia in their majorities, so yes, it's highly unlikely that Russia will give any of that up.



At some point, Ukraine and the west are going to have to start being realistic about what they can accomplish. As Hawkeye has said, generally speaking, the one that can make demands that are actually likely to be granted is the side that is -winning-. That side is not Ukraine. Every day, they -lose- more territory. The longer Ukraine waits to get back to the negotiating table, the less land it will likely have by the end of the conflict. I hear that Zelensky's going to Turkey to try to work something out:

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/starting-to-doubt-trump-says-ukraine-may-not-make-deal-with-putin-in-turkey-101747015720881.html

Here's to hoping something good comes of it.

You heard correctly. Zelensky immediately agreed to Putin's proposal to start negotiations on May 15 and will personally fly to Istanbul for one-on-one talks with Putin. But Putin is unlikely to decide to fly to Istanbul personally. And if this happens, then Trump will already know for sure that Putin does not want peace. In that case, Trump will no longer limit arms supplies to Ukraine.