A question for Democrats and Republicans:

[Yakuda]

Sounds like a decent plan.



Okay.


It is very different. If you actually cannot see the differences, something is wrong. If you mean it, as I suspect you do, in an analogous way, you are wording it wrong.


I consider your comments here to be nonsense. There are good and compelling reasons for much of the criticism directed at him. I can say for myself, personally, that I have never felt the revulsion I feel toward him...toward any other president. And as I have mentioned previously, one-third of ALL the presidents we've ever had have served during my lifetime. He is close to stupid, certainly the least intelligent president in the past century; he is not curious; he has an abominable personality; he is incautious (which is seriously dangerous in a president); his choice of a cabinet would not pass muster with an editor if it were presented in a fiction novel...and the list could go on for pages.

YOU may not see his defects as worthy for the contempt so man people feel towards him, but it is certainly more justified than much of the scorn and contempt people from your side of the aisle feel toward people like Obama, Biden, or Harris.



Well, then I suggest you re-read that last sentence I wrote...and muse on it for a bit.

Let me explain what I mean about the analogy. I believe they are exactly the same as there is little if anything good an arab would have to say about a jew. I think the same is exactly true for dems about trump.

Criticism is one thing, and warranted in the case of trump, but revulsion is a much deeper sinister and darker thing. They arent on the same level in the least. My analogy above points to the revulsion as arabs dont just criticize jews they hate Jews.

I see his defects clearly and again they may be worthy of contempt but revulsion....that makes my point. I more or less feelings for trump than i do for obama and biden.

I dont need to reread it. To have this level of hatred toward a political figure borders on irrational. Sorry thats just how I see it

 

[Grim Reaper]

This is misleading at best, a lie at worst. "Functioning" doesn't mean it is doing so in some reasonably cost effective way. Obamacare policies are grossly expensive compared to the previous open market. And, no, subsidies that make them "affordable" are still part of the cost. So, policy for policy, Obamacare is an economic disaster on this portion of it.


It wasn't supposed to be 90% federally funded by this point. It isn't particularly effective either, and certainly not cost effective.


None of them were meant to be endless. That is one of the accounting tricks the Democrats used to make it appear revenue neutral.


Deficit-neutral means it has to be self-supporting. If it cannot pay its way on funds generated from the program itself, it is being SUBSIDIZED from other funding sources, mainly taxes.

This is an irrelevant appeal to authority. Federal sources are not the only place to get information on the ACA and its performance.

You keep calling verified data lies because it doesn’t fit your narrative, not because it’s wrong. Functioning doesn’t mean perfect, it means the system works, millions insured, claims paid, markets stable. Pretending subsidies weren’t part of the design or that deficit‑neutral means self‑funding isn’t debate, it’s word‑salad denial.

You’re not exposing a scandal, you’re just recycling talking points that collapse under basic math. Every major health program is subsidized, that’s how public policy works. The ACA’s numbers are public, consistent, and boringly factual. Calling that a disaster doesn’t make it one, it just makes your argument sound allergic to evidence.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You keep calling verified data lies because it doesn’t fit your narrative, not because it’s wrong. Functioning doesn’t mean perfect, it means the system works, millions insured, claims paid, markets stable. Pretending subsidies weren’t part of the design or that deficit‑neutral means self‑funding isn’t debate, it’s word‑salad denial.

You’re not exposing a scandal, you’re just recycling talking points that collapse under basic math. Every major health program is subsidized, that’s how public policy works. The ACA’s numbers are public, consistent, and boringly factual. Calling that a disaster doesn’t make it one, it just makes your argument sound allergic to evidence.

It is YOU that is ignoring the reality of Obamacare.

https://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/5542167-obamacare-death-spiral-subsidies/

Five Reasons Obamacare is a Failure

edworkforce.house.gov

https://insuranceinformant.com/why-is-the-affordable-care-act-not-working.html

The problem with Obamacare is Obamacare - Competitive Enterprise Institute

This year, the COVID-induced expansion of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) will expire. Extending the expanded subsidies has become a point of contention between Republicans and Democrats, and the clock is ticking. Marketplace enrollees will start choosing their plans in a month. The expansion of...

cei.org

5 Reminders: How Obamacare Has Failed the American People - Ways and Means

President Obama’s health care law has been hurting America’s workers, families, retirees, and job creators for nearly seven years, and—as...

waysandmeans.house.gov

 

[Grim Reaper]

It is YOU that is ignoring the reality of Obamacare.

https://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/5542167-obamacare-death-spiral-subsidies/

Five Reasons Obamacare is a Failure

edworkforce.house.gov

https://insuranceinformant.com/why-is-the-affordable-care-act-not-working.html

The problem with Obamacare is Obamacare - Competitive Enterprise Institute

This year, the COVID-induced expansion of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) will expire. Extending the expanded subsidies has become a point of contention between Republicans and Democrats, and the clock is ticking. Marketplace enrollees will start choosing their plans in a month. The expansion of...

cei.org

5 Reminders: How Obamacare Has Failed the American People - Ways and Means

President Obama’s health care law has been hurting America’s workers, families, retirees, and job creators for nearly seven years, and—as...

waysandmeans.house.gov

You didn’t prove reality, you just carpet‑bombed the thread with partisan opinion pieces and hoped the sheer link‑count would distract from the fact that none of them contain the federal numbers you keep running from. You’re treating editorials as if they overwrite enrollment data, actuarial reports, and statutory funding formulas, they don’t.

What you posted isn’t evidence, it’s a mood board of your preferred conclusions. And the funniest part is that you think dropping think‑tank blogs somehow elevates your argument instead of confirming you can’t produce a single primary source. If your entire case collapses the moment you’re asked for actual data, that’s not my problem, that’s the part you don’t want anyone to notice.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You didn’t prove reality, you just carpet‑bombed the thread with partisan opinion pieces and hoped the sheer link‑count would distract from the fact that none of them contain the federal numbers you keep running from. You’re treating editorials as if they overwrite enrollment data, actuarial reports, and statutory funding formulas, they don’t.

What you posted isn’t evidence, it’s a mood board of your preferred conclusions. And the funniest part is that you think dropping think‑tank blogs somehow elevates your argument instead of confirming you can’t produce a single primary source. If your entire case collapses the moment you’re asked for actual data, that’s not my problem, that’s the part you don’t want anyone to notice.

I posted from a variety of sources, op eds by interested parties, government committees in Congress, and health insurance experts. They all say the same thing: Obamacare is an expensive failure that doesn't meet a single original goal of the legislation. It is a disaster.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Let me explain what I mean about the analogy. I believe they are exactly the same as there is little if anything good an arab would have to say about a jew. I think the same is exactly true for dems about trump.

Criticism is one thing, and warranted in the case of trump, but revulsion is a much deeper sinister and darker thing. They arent on the same level in the least. My analogy above points to the revulsion as arabs dont just criticize jews they hate Jews.

I see his defects clearly and again they may be worthy of contempt but revulsion....that makes my point. I more or less feelings for trump than i do for obama and biden.

I dont need to reread it. To have this level of hatred toward a political figure borders on irrational. Sorry thats just how I see it

No problem. I see your take to be absurd. Trump is worthy of a lot more scorn and contempt than he is given...and he, correctly, is given a LOT more than any previous president.

See? We merely feel differently about the guy.

 

[Yakuda]

No problem. I see your take to be absurd. Trump is worthy of a lot more scorn and contempt than he is given...and he, correctly, is given a LOT more than any previous president.

See? We merely feel differently about the guy.

Oh course he has and to pretend he hasnt is myopic.

I felt nothing even remotely close for obama and biden like you feel for trump. I thought obama was dangerous for America and biden was DOA but i never felt revulsion for either even though they hurt America badly.

 

[Grim Reaper]

I posted from a variety of sources, op eds by interested parties, government committees in Congress, and health insurance experts. They all say the same thing: Obamacare is an expensive failure that doesn't meet a single original goal of the legislation. It is a disaster.

You didn’t bring a variety of sources. You brought a pile of op‑eds and advocacy pieces and tried to pretend they outrank actual data. They don’t.

If all your links agree, it’s not because they’re right, it’s because you only picked the ones that already matched your script.

You’re not proving anything, you’re just curating your own echo and hoping no one notices the silence where the evidence should be.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Oh course he has and to pretend he hasnt is myopic.

Very weirdly worded comment. WHOM are you claiming is pretending...and WHAT is that person pretending?

I felt nothing even remotely close for obama and biden like you feel for trump.

I can understand that. In my opinion, neither Obama nor Biden were as repulsive as Trump...nor as personally defective.

I thought obama was dangerous for America and biden was DOA but i never felt revulsion for either even though they hurt America badly.

Okay. But since you never felt revulsion for either, are you suggesting I, or others, should not feel that way about Trump? Should we also not feel revulsion for Hitler or Stalin?

Yakuda, we simply have different feelings about Trump. If it makes you feel anymore tolerant toward my position, understand that I do not hate him...and instead feel real pity for him. If there is any hatred involved in the feelings-complex on the issue, it is directed toward the up-bringing and influences that (who) made him what I see him to be. I did not always feel this way about the guy. I was a rather ardent admirer of his for years...and actually went into town to see him at an event I knew he would attend.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I posted from a variety of sources, op eds by interested parties, government committees in Congress, and health insurance experts. They all say the same thing: Obamacare is an expensive failure that doesn't meet a single original goal of the legislation. It is a disaster.

I asked you a question in another thread which you never answered. Here it is again, re-worded:

Which do you think is the better attempt to get more and better coverage for as many Americans as possible...

...Obamacare...

...or the plan Trump devised and got passed in Congress that gives more coverage to more people who need it and at a much lower cost?

Which, TA?

 

[Guno צְבִי]

TO ALL OF YOU WHO HAVE RESPONDED:

I just realized I made a mistake in the OP.

Instead of, "Essentially what I am looking for is: Is electability your major criteria for your vote...or is electability"...it should have read, "Essentially what I am looking for is: In a primary election, is electability the major criteria for your vote...or is competency."

competency

I posted from a variety of sources, op eds by interested parties, government committees in Congress, and health insurance experts. They all say the same thing: Obamacare is an expensive failure that doesn't meet a single original goal of the legislation. It is a disaster.

Strange how when romney put it in place in Massachusetts, no problem. When back guy put it forward for the nation = freakout

 

[Yakuda]

Very weirdly worded comment. WHOM are you claiming is pretending...and WHAT is that person pretending?


I can understand that. In my opinion, neither Obama nor Biden were as repulsive as Trump...nor as personally defective.


Okay. But since you never felt revulsion for either, are you suggesting I, or others, should not feel that way about Trump? Should we also not feel revulsion for Hitler or Stalin?

Yakuda, we simply have different feelings about Trump. If it makes you feel anymore tolerant toward my position, understand that I do not hate him...and instead feel real pity for him. If there is any hatred involved in the feelings-complex on the issue, it is directed toward the up-bringing and influences that (who) made him what I see him to be. I did not always feel this way about the guy. I was a rather ardent admirer of his for years...and actually went into town to see him at an event I knew he would attend.

Obama and biden did far more to damage america then trump has. What you dont understand is I can separate people from their politics. The only friends Ive lost were because I voted for trump I never lost a friend because they had the bad judgment to vote for obama and/or biden. The thing is people can always find ways to justify their hatred but it doesnt make it objective or accurate

Im not suggesting anything other than the way people respond to trump is irrational. He is neither hitler not stalin and just mentioning them only seem to make my point

Youre right I have no feelings for trump and you are repulsed by him. Oh course you hate him. This is the pretending I mentioned in my previous post. Im not sure why people cant just admit it. People will sing and dance the day he dies and Im supposed to believe anyone who feels for trump the way you do will feel pity for him? I dont think so

 

[Ross Dolan]

Obama and biden did far more to damage america then trump has. What you dont understand is I can separate people from their politics. The only friends Ive lost were because I voted for trump I never lost a friend because they had the bad judgment to vote for obama and/or biden. The thing is people can always find ways to justify their hatred but it doesnt make it objective or accurate

Im not suggesting anything other than the way people respond to trump is irrational. He is neither hitler not stalin and just mentioning them only seem to make my point

Youre right I have no feelings for trump and you are repulsed by him. Oh course you hate him. This is the pretending I mentioned in my previous post. Im not sure why people cant just admit it. People will sing and dance the day he dies and Im supposed to believe anyone who feels for trump the way you do will feel pity for him? I dont think so

I'll only handle the "hate" and "pity" parts of that stuff.

I do not hate Trump...I do not hate anyone. If you want to guess that I do despite my assurances that I do not...nothing I can do about that. So...guess away.

I do pity him. Very much. He was influenced by his father and by Roy Cohn. He is, in my opinion, the worst president of all time. Sorry you are not able to see that I am speaking the truth, but that happens.

 

[Hume]

If, during the primary elections, you deem some candidates to be more competent than their opponents, but less electable***...would you be more inclined to vote for the more competent person to be your party's nominee...or for the more electable one?

Essentially what I am looking for is: Is electability your major criteria for your vote...or is electability.


***As a "for instance"...younger white males are often considered to have an electability advantage over female or non-white persons.

"Electability" is a meaningless term. A media creation.

 

[CasualLurker]

TO ALL OF YOU WHO HAVE RESPONDED:

I just realized I made a mistake in the OP.

Instead of, "Essentially what I am looking for is: Is electability your major criteria for your vote...or is electability"...it should have read, "Essentially what I am looking for is: In a primary election, is electability the major criteria for your vote...or is competency."

This is a terrible situation in which to be. We need to win, but recognize that we can't win nominating the best candidate.

From a progressive's perspective, this is another way of confirming that we feel that our fellow Americans are not the quality of people that we need them to be. Carrying it further, we're acknowledging that the majority American citizens are what will prevent America from ever being what we want America to be.

Progressive liberal Americans will apparently never get what we want living in our nation of birth, while at the same time, not being welcome to emigrate to nations that meet our standards for social responsibility.

Further, even competency doesn't meet all of our needs. There are very competent people who aren't ideologically acceptable.

 

[Yakuda]

I'll only handle the "hate" and "pity" parts of that stuff.

I do not hate Trump...I do not hate anyone. If you want to guess that I do despite my assurances that I do not...nothing I can do about that. So...guess away.

I do pity him. Very much. He was influenced by his father and by Roy Cohn. He is, in my opinion, the worst president of all time. Sorry you are not able to see that I am speaking the truth, but that happensWell let me ask you have you ever felt revulsion for someone you

I admit its a guess that you hate him but i dont know that revulsion goes along to many other feelings

Well again its the truth as you see you it biased by the revulsion you feel for him. Im not dogging you for hating him, it doesnt matter to me if you do or dont but to try and again pretend you dont. He is by far not the worse president ever and since we have lived through them all its only opinion not fact.

Not revulsion but very very low regard and Biden is one of those and heres why. When is wife was accidentally killed by a truck driver biden publiclly claimed the driver was drunk he though he wasnt and the louse never apologized. I have very little regard for him.

 

[goat]

This is a terrible situation in which to be. We need to win, but recognize that we can't win nominating the best candidate.

From a progressive's perspective, this is another way of confirming that we feel that our fellow Americans are not the quality of people that we need them to be. Carrying it further, we're acknowledging that the majority American citizens are what will prevent America from ever being what we want America to be.

Progressive liberal Americans will apparently never get what we want living in our nation of birth, while at the same time, not being welcome to emigrate to nations that meet our standards for social responsibility.

Further, even competency doesn't meet all of our needs. There are very competent people who aren't ideologically acceptable.

We're not going to be able to vote our way out of this mess. 99% of government is owned by aipac and technocrats. It used to be possible to elect good city or county officials but even that's been corrupted by Walmart and McDonald's. Try keeping them out of a 2 stop sign town.

Complacency = complicity. We've had it too good for too long. That's all about to change. Once people go without 9 meals in a row, they're ready to fight. The Global South will be first to rise up, followed by Europe. A lot of smart people are predicting the US will also go through a 1931 type food shortage.