A question for Democrats and Republicans:

[Uncensored2008]

Neither. I think Obamacare was a plan concocted in part by insurance companies in collusion with government to get them subsidized--heavily--while FORCING people into the system.

Trump's plan is no better. It too heavily involves government as a solution.

Government created this problem. Government has made it far worse. More government involvement won't solve it.

Exactly correct.

I was using the stat that health insurance cost to consumers had tripled since Fascist Care was instituted. But I have to update - they have in fact more than quintupled. The average plan being about $2,500 each month. That's $30,000 a year for the democrats reading this.

Only the top 1% of America can afford health insurance. The government heavily subsidizes plans for everyone else.

Government of Kaiser, by Kaiser, for Kaiser. Sieg heil and Uber Alles democrat.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So, only rich people can afford health care? How is that a better system?

How does making health insurance cost 5 times more create a "better system?"

You can't answer, you'll just spew a mindless insult to avoid the facts.

 

[Grim Reaper]

How does making health insurance cost 5 times more create a "better system?"

You can't answer, you'll just spew a mindless insult to avoid the facts.

You keep demanding an answer while dodging the part where your math face‑plants on impact. Nobody made insurance five times more, that’s just the number you shout so you don’t have to explain it. Hume asked a policy question, you responded with a ghost story, and now you’re pre‑emptively accusing people of insults because you don’t have a single data point to stand on.

You’re not debating, you’re building a forcefield out of pretend facts and hoping no one notices the panic sweat. The only thing you’ve proven is that you can yell better system??? louder than you can define one.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I was merely referring to the phrase you used, you said you felt revulsion for him. I gave you the definition. Was that just hyperbole or a slip of the tongue. Words have meaning. Maybe you would like to rethink the phrases you use?

I have expressed revulsion at the agenda he offers...and I might add, with some of his conduct. I DO NOT HATE HIM. Now, I am asking you respectfully to indulge your opinion or guess that I hate him, but to stop attempting to get me to agree with you about it, because I do not hate him...or anyone else.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Ask it what a proper pronoun is.

Do we have to capitalize proper pronouns?

 

[Ross Dolan]

Obama came up with nothing. Congress in collusion with the insurance industry came up with a plan. Obama just signed off on it. I can remember when he finally tried to get some Republicans onboard with the plan and in a meeting that was videoed, Paul Ryan tore the plan apart with solid accounting data and the like as Obama sat there with a look on his face that was combination I can't follow any of this, and I am royally pissed off! This fucker is making me look stupid!


It made things worse. That is ALL Obamacare did. It made things worse.


I suspect that it's far down his 'To Do' list and not a priority. Obama wanted a big flashy social-welfare program score in the mold of the New Deal, or Great Society (both largely failures too)


Yes, government did create this problem. FDR created it in fact. When the US entered WW 2, FDR passed wage and price controls on all of US industry. At the same time, there was a massive labor shortage. Employers in order to get the workers they needed resorted to alternate income in other forms as an incentive to workers. Those incentives included, free healthcare / health insurance, free or low-cost meals at a cafeteria (got around rationing limits for workers), bus or other employer provided transportation to and from work, low-cost housing, and the like.

When the war ended many of these slowly disappeared. The health insurance one stayed in place. Over time, this expanded as employers found prospective employees expected it.

So, yes, government DID create this problem in its entirety.


That prior to WW 2, Americans paid directly for healthcare. After WW 2 and FDR's wage and price controls, employer provided health insurance became the norm.


Government isn't "bad," so much as government is incompetent. Government is the worse way to do just about anything, but sometimes it's the only way possible.

Yes, government is necessary for a society to function. It usually grows over time and becomes increasingly intrusive and oppressive to the society it was meant to serve. Therefore, the people need to keep their collective boot on its neck and make sure government knows its place and doesn't get out of control.

I think what you have said here is total bullshit...and unworthy of a more comprehensive reply.

Continue down the path of American conservatism. It was wrong during Revolutionary days...and it was wrong during Civil War days. It will be wrong on all major issues facing us.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I agree people need medical care, what I havent heard yet however is a coherent and rational explantion for why the govt has to provide it.

Last thing in the world I want is 99.9% of government providing it. I want medical people, doctors, nurses, and hospitals to do that. I want the government aid people in obtaining the care of those people.

 

[LurchAddams]

Put the crack pipe down Comrade Stooge.

I know that I mopped the floor with you again and you have no rational retort - but that is the normal state of affairs.

You "mopped the floor"? LOLOL!

You poor delusional trumptard. Here, a photo for you to jerk you tiny self off to, ass-clown:



A great new name for trump: Don Snore-Leon!

 

[LurchAddams]

I think what you have said here is total bullshit...and unworthy of a more comprehensive reply.

Continue down the path of American conservatism. It was wrong during Revolutionary days...and it was wrong during Civil War days. It will be wrong on all major issues facing us.

When Terry is stuck trying to make his point, he just makes shit up. I'll never forget Terry tried to justify trump hiding his tax returns as "part of FOIA" (FOIA = freedom of information act where the public has the right to request documentation from government). So the truth was the exact opposite of what he was claiming. Just like today and every day, right @T. A. Gardner ?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I think what you have said here is total bullshit...and unworthy of a more comprehensive reply.

That's what you get for thinking. You don't do it very well, and probably should stop entirely.

Continue down the path of American conservatism. It was wrong during Revolutionary days...and it was wrong during Civil War days. It will be wrong on all major issues facing us.

Clearly we agree that healthcare costs and the cost of health insurance is far too high. What do you suggest to bring costs down? More government involvement has now repeatedly been shown to increase those costs, not lower them. So, what would you propose?

 

[Yakuda]

I have expressed revulsion at the agenda he offers...and I might add, with some of his conduct. I DO NOT HATE HIM. Now, I am asking you respectfully to indulge your opinion or guess that I hate him, but to stop attempting to get me to agree with you about it, because I do not hate him...or anyone else.

Ok then you're revising your statement correct? Initially you said you feel revulsion for him and revulsion means hate. But now you're saying his agenda is what you feel revulsion for?

 

[Yakuda]

Last thing in the world I want is 99.9% of government providing it. I want medical people, doctors, nurses, and hospitals to do that. I want the government aid people in obtaining the care of those people.

why should the govt be involved in that? Shouldnt it be the responsibility of the individual to obtain it?

 

[Ross Dolan]

That's what you get for thinking. You don't do it very well, and probably should stop entirely.

Piss poor insult...which you know is bullshit just like the post to which I made reference.

Clearly we agree that healthcare costs and the cost of health insurance is far too high.

Okay.

What do you suggest to bring costs down?

I suggest very strongly that we keep people like Trump and morons working for him as far away from the problem as possible. He and they have a knack for making every problem worse so that they can claim victory if they bring it back to almost where it was.

More government involvement has now repeatedly been shown to increase those costs, not lower them.

More government involvement has repeatedly been shown to help get more people covered under the capitalistic system we insist must be brought to this issue. Most of the industrialized/civilized countries of the world have taken the issue out of that dynamic...and have significantly decreased costs and medical results over our abysmally high costs and relatively poor results.

So, what would you propose?

MAJOR: what I said in my third paragraph above.

FOLLOWING: I would have the government start financing (using the West Point/Annapolis system) medical school...with a requirement of a relatively high paid 10 - 12 year service agreement in government clinics and hospitals. I might offer already graduated folk total payment of their academic debt and payment of a high salary to do the same.

I would recommend getting basic care out of the capitalistic sphere entirely. It doesn't belong there.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Ok then you're revising your statement correct? Initially you said you feel revulsion for him and revulsion means hate. But now you're saying his agenda is what you feel revulsion for?

Yakuda, I am beginning to suspect that the only way to end this bullshit between us on the question of whether or not I hate or do not hate Trump...is to put you on ignore for a month or two. I do not hate Trump.

If you truly cannot accept that, let me know and I will take the action. Perhaps after the short hiatus, we can get back to reasonable discussion.

 

[Ross Dolan]

why should the govt be involved in that?

Because.

Shouldnt it be the responsibility of the individual to obtain it?

No.

 

[Ichabod Stain]

elimination of insurance.

fee for service model.

remove big pharma control over medical research, and the medical industry in general, including medical school.

the science is captured by big pharma and information about health and diet is suppressed.

children are given diabetes by orange juice Karen soccer moms so big pharma has lifelong customers.

basic shit like this.

 

[Ichabod Stain]

all insurance is a scam and should be outlawed.

sorry parasites.

 

[Yakuda]

Yakuda, I am beginning to suspect that the only way to end this bullshit between us on the question of whether or not I hate or do not hate Trump...is to put you on ignore for a month or two. I do not hate Trump.

If you truly cannot accept that, let me know and I will take the action. Perhaps after the short hiatus, we can get back to reasonable discussion.

Ok but did you or did you not say you feel revulsion for him? Thats what i want to know

 

[Yakuda]

Because.

No.

C'mon man! "Because" why... give an argument for it

Why shoudnt it be the individuals responsibility? Make a case for your position

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Piss poor insult...which you know is bullshit just like the post to which I made reference.

Ha!

I suggest very strongly that we keep people like Trump and morons working for him as far away from the problem as possible. He and they have a knack for making every problem worse so that they can claim victory if they bring it back to almost where it was.

I suggest we keep Democrats away from this problem since they created it and have repeatedly made it far, far, worse.

More government involvement has repeatedly been shown to help get more people covered under the capitalistic system we insist must be brought to this issue. Most of the industrialized/civilized countries of the world have taken the issue out of that dynamic...and have significantly decreased costs and medical results over our abysmally high costs and relatively poor results.

If you like shitty healthcare that isn't responsive and still costs an arm and a leg. (yes, that's a pun)

MAJOR: what I said in my third paragraph above.

FOLLOWING: I would have the government start financing (using the West Point/Annapolis system) medical school...with a requirement of a relatively high paid 10 - 12 year service agreement in government clinics and hospitals. I might offer already graduated folk total payment of their academic debt and payment of a high salary to do the same.

I would recommend getting basic care out of the capitalistic sphere entirely. It doesn't belong there.

I would reduce the role of government and insurance in paying for healthcare. Prices would stabilize, overcharging would cease, and the system driven by the market would make it affordable.