A very good summery of the credit problems in the US

[FUCK THE POLICE]

My wife and I were both educated in the public schools in Alabama. They routinely finish at the bottom of most studies regarding money spent and academic achievements.

But we carry zero credit card debt. We have no car payment. They only thing we even considered borrowing for is a mortgage.

I had no classes in finances. But I have sense enough to realize that adding almost 20% to the purchase price of an item just to have it sooner is pure folly.

Yes and what's your IQ?

Solitary, think about how dumb I am. And I have an IQ of 120. 80% of America is dumber than me. Many find it too difficult to, or are unable to do the math. It's a sad fact that we have to design laws for these people. And really, there's no reason most of these loans ever should've been made. Anyone who made them was doing it for just one reason: greed. It's just as wrong to take advantage of idiocy as it is to be an idiot.

 

[Good Luck]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Ok now that Im done laughing at your stupid post to defend the very people who crashed our economy by Cheating the system and YES they did convince people to take on the credit. Where have you been, under a rock?
Every store for years would give you gifts and discounts to get a card with them. They had deals for if you used your card to purchase items.


This all happened before in the great depression and the laws that were set up to keep it from happening again were dismantled recently.

Why is it you people refuse to understand the history which is repeting its self?

Right - MERCHANTS were pushing buying on credit. The article was about LENDING INSTITUTIONS. Of those guilty of predatory lending (a phenomenon I fully acknowledged in this thread if you would bother to read) merchants are among the worst. But that is a small percentage of the total credit problem, which is my point.

Also, you like other brain dead liberals, want to put all the blame on the predatory lenders, whereas at least 50% of the problem, even considering predatory lending, comes from a fucked up materialistic "gotta have it now" attitude. Predatory lending would not work if people didn't come in their stores with that attitude to some degree.

Now, for the (is it third or fourth time in this thread) I fully agree new regulations need to be instilled to curb the phenomenon of predatory lending. So its not like I am defending that practice.

But I am also saying that predatory lending is not the ONLY problem with the credit economy. The credit economy ITSELF is the big problem, while predatory lending is a relatively minor symptom of that problem. If our society as a whole does not curb the entire idea of deficit spending, we will ALWAYS be dipping into trouble. Band aid fixes will only go so far, and then we will find ourselves in a situation to make people WISH it were "only" another Great Depression.

 

[Cancel3]

Yes and what's your IQ?

Solitary, think about how dumb I am. And I have an IQ of 120. 80% of America is dumber than me. Many find it too difficult to, or are unable to do the math. It's a sad fact that we have to design laws for these people. And really, there's no reason most of these loans ever should've been made. Anyone who made them was doing it for just one reason: greed. It's just as wrong to take advantage of idiocy as it is to be an idiot.

I don't know what my IQ is, as I have never had it tested (other than silly tests online).

I think that adding $18 to every $100 is not particularly difficult math.

My landlords (two "good ol' boys) are not known for their intellect, but they are bright enough to avoid using credit for stupid things. They don't drive new cars for the social impact. They save to buy things. This father & son pair of rural rednecks are smart enough to avoid the instant gratification pitfalls.

 

[Topspin]

don't hold your breath on Politicians with guts.
Our next President is taking pandering and gladhanding to a new leve, checks for everyone but the top 5%. And he's selling out the anti-war group by calling for more troups in Afghanistan.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

If you bother to read the article you will see all the ways the fuckers used to tap all the money out of the credit consumer.

"They raised all sorts of fees related to lending."

Yes, they raised some minor fees. The greater problem to me is their ability to charge over 20% interest on the credit card loans. Their ability to do it pretty arbitrarily is what catches many consumers. That said, the consumer still is not required to use the card. Yes, it is easy to get the credit... but no one forces anyone to use it. The greed of the consumer is every bit as responsible.

They milked the cash cow after convincing the American public that living in debt was what everyonedid.

"Havent you ever wondered why High School kids are not taught about finances?"

The answer to that question is that our public school system sucks.

 

[Good Luck]

I don't know what my IQ is, as I have never had it tested (other than silly tests online).

I think that adding $18 to every $100 is not particularly difficult math.

My landlords (two "good ol' boys) are not known for their intellect, but they are bright enough to avoid using credit for stupid things. They don't drive new cars for the social impact. They save to buy things. This father & son pair of rural rednecks are smart enough to avoid the instant gratification pitfalls.

That is exactly the point. The difficulty is not about people being too ignorant to figure out that adding interest to a purchase effectively increases the cost. The difficulty is they are too focussed on the instant gratification to care about the long term consequences. That is not a condition of intelligence or education, or even being reasonably informed. It is a matter of personal priorities that place instant materialist gratification at the top.

I detest debt, myself, and always have. I have credit cards, but only use them for the rewards programs and never, ever carry a balance. (A habit which has become much easier with the advent of on line payments - now I don't even wait for a bill.) If I purchase an item, I have the money in the bank to pay for it, or I do not buy it.

I did buy my first house and my fishing cabin on mortgages, but limited them to 10 year mortgages. Bought my current house, and the house before that for cash from selling my prior house. Have never had a new car (why bother?) and only took out a loan for a car once.

When I want (or need) to buy an item not in the budget, I set up a simple savings plan for it. If it is under $200, that savings plan is an envelope on the fridge. Twice a month I put a 10 or 20 dollar bill (depending on the price of the item) in the envelope. Within 5 or 6 months I have the cash to buy the item. For larger items (like my soon-to-be new fishing boat) I use a savings account in the bank and transfer a carefully determined amount in the account each month on pay day.

People need to realize how much MORE they can buy on the same income if they just have the patience to WAIT a few months (or in cases like my boat, a 2 or 3 years) and the will to plan ahead. By planning ahead and paying cash, they can take the 18+ percent they pay for credit and use it to buy other stuff. I figure that by paying cash for my boat next summer, what I save on not financing it will pay for the motor. If most, or even a significant minority of people did that, it would significantly stabilize our economy.

 

[evince]

Right - MERCHANTS were pushing buying on credit. The article was about LENDING INSTITUTIONS. Of those guilty of predatory lending (a phenomenon I fully acknowledged in this thread if you would bother to read) merchants are among the worst. But that is a small percentage of the total credit problem, which is my point.

Also, you like other brain dead liberals, want to put all the blame on the predatory lenders, whereas at least 50% of the problem, even considering predatory lending, comes from a fucked up materialistic "gotta have it now" attitude. Predatory lending would not work if people didn't come in their stores with that attitude to some degree.

Now, for the (is it third or fourth time in this thread) I fully agree new regulations need to be instilled to curb the phenomenon of predatory lending. So its not like I am defending that practice.

But I am also saying that predatory lending is not the ONLY problem with the credit economy. The credit economy ITSELF is the big problem, while predatory lending is a relatively minor symptom of that problem. If our society as a whole does not curb the entire idea of deficit spending, we will ALWAYS be dipping into trouble. Band aid fixes will only go so far, and then we will find ourselves in a situation to make people WISH it were "only" another Great Depression.

Look if you allow the lending companies to opperate without concern to them being able to own enough of the process they will package the Bad loans off in such a way that it will cause just what we are seeing today. Why did they do that ? To make a mommentary profit without reguard to the greateer economy. Not all Americans understand debet ratios. They never have and they never will. They will get talked into shit by people in any industry because they are thinking they are talking to an expert. If you allow business to opperate without government placed regulations you will have an atmosphere in which people are taken in all the time by a sales pitch. Then you will end up with a market where people are affraid to buy any god damned thing even with cash in hand for fear of being taken.


Is that the economy you want?

How the hell do you think America will fair in a global market if we opperate like that?

We will suck and end up being a third world country.

If you want a robust economy you have to put in place reasonable regulations to the opperations of commerse that keeps the ball rolling smoothly.

You guy kill me with always wanting to return to a past that never exsisted.

We allow the coprate world to opperate and will legislate them when they proove ( like in this sub prime example) that they will kill the economy for a mommentary profit unless we regulate them.

Now your new job is to go convience the corps NOT to screw the pooch for mommentary profit.

See how well they listen to you?

 

[Topspin]

if you think the borrower isn't equally responsible your uneducated and are wishing for someothing that's left of what Stalin would ask for.

 

[evince]

listen you brain dead college grad If you want a market where the consumer is terrified to spend money than you just keep up with the idea we dont and never have needed Glass Steagal to protect us from what now has happened twice without the protections it provided.

For a fucking guy who insists everyone other than himself are stupid I would think you would realize that you dont want your own ecomonic future tied to people who will NEVER understand ecomonics as well as would be needed in a world without the protections it provides the average joe.

You can say they should rely on their own intelligence but the world that would give you is what we fucking see now, Do you like it?

 

[Good Luck]

The greater problem to me is their ability to charge over 20% interest on the credit card loans. Their ability to do it pretty arbitrarily is what catches many consumers. That said, the consumer still is not required to use the card. Yes, it is easy to get the credit... but no one forces anyone to use it. The greed of the consumer is every bit as responsible.

The high interest rates - especially what CC companies label "default rates" are what I see as the biggest problem. I have long been bothered by interest rates which not all that long ago would have been criminally prosecuted under loan sharking laws. I think the law should be adjusted to a limit of about 10% above prime rate. By tying it to the prime rate the way variable rate lenders do, the law would not need to be adjusted constantly for unusual economic conditions such as high inflation.

I also believe laws should be written to limit the reasons and circumstances under which a lender can change their rate. For instance, if a company decides it is essential that they go from prime+6 to prime +7 on certain accounts, they cannot, under any circumstances, apply that rate to balances outstanding at the time of the increase. The idea that if the credit account is used again, the new rate is applied to the entire balance it BS. And rate changes on variable interest loans should be limited to 1 time per year.

Also, there needs to be limits on what circumstances define a default which results in going to default penalties and default interest rates. Currently there are companies that switch to their default rate if an account receives a minimum payment for 4 months in a row - even if those payments are on time. That should be criminal. Default should be defined as missing 3 payments in a row, or more than 5 payments in a year later than 15 days. Lenders could, if they desired, be more lenient than that, but not more strict.

As for merchant credit, and the phenomenon of enticing customers with rewards for applying for credit, I do not see that as a problem government should be involved with - except to the extent of fraud prevention. People who just "gotta have it now" don't need a mothering government to watch out for them - they need to learn to watch out for themselves.

About the only regulation I would desire there is the print on the contract has to be the same size all through. No ultra fine print you need a microfiche reader to see.

 

[Good Luck]

Look if you allow the lending companies to opperate without concern to them being able to own enough of the process they will package the Bad loans off in such a way that it will cause just what we are seeing today. Why did they do that ? To make a mommentary profit without reguard to the greateer economy. Not all Americans understand debet ratios. They never have and they never will. They will get talked into shit by people in any industry because they are thinking they are talking to an expert. If you allow business to opperate without government placed regulations you will have an atmosphere in which people are taken in all the time by a sales pitch. Then you will end up with a market where people are affraid to buy any god damned thing even with cash in hand for fear of being taken.


Is that the economy you want?

How the hell do you think America will fair in a global market if we opperate like that?

We will suck and end up being a third world country.

If you want a robust economy you have to put in place reasonable regulations to the opperations of commerse that keeps the ball rolling smoothly.

You guy kill me with always wanting to return to a past that never exsisted.

We allow the coprate world to opperate and will legislate them when they proove ( like in this sub prime example) that they will kill the economy for a mommentary profit unless we regulate them.

Now your new job is to go convience the corps NOT to screw the pooch for mommentary profit.

See how well they listen to you?

What part of "I fully agree new regulations need to be instilled to curb the phenomenon of predatory lending." is incomprehensible to you?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Ok now that Im done laughing at your stupid post to defend the very people who crashed our economy by Cheating the system and YES they did convince people to take on the credit. Where have you been, under a rock?
Every store for years would give you gifts and discounts to get a card with them. They had deals for if you used your card to purchase items.


This all happened before in the great depression and the laws that were set up to keep it from happening again were dismantled recently.

Why is it you people refuse to understand the history which is repeting its self?

Yes, Desh, they offered incentives to use their credit. But the CONSUMER is the one that made the decision to USE the credit. You act as though people are too stupid to understand how credit works and that they must all be "tricked" into using it. This is typical bullshit from the left where the mantra is "its not the individual's fault... its the corporations that made them do it."

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

The high interest rates - especially what CC companies label "default rates" are what I see as the biggest problem. I have long been bothered by interest rates which not all that long ago would have been criminally prosecuted under loan sharking laws. I think the law should be adjusted to a limit of about 10% above prime rate. By tying it to the prime rate the way variable rate lenders do, the law would not need to be adjusted constantly for unusual economic conditions such as high inflation.

I also believe laws should be written to limit the reasons and circumstances under which a lender can change their rate. For instance, if a company decides it is essential that they go from prime+6 to prime +7 on certain accounts, they cannot, under any circumstances, apply that rate to balances outstanding at the time of the increase. The idea that if the credit account is used again, the new rate is applied to the entire balance it BS. And rate changes on variable interest loans should be limited to 1 time per year.

Also, there needs to be limits on what circumstances define a default which results in going to default penalties and default interest rates. Currently there are companies that switch to their default rate if an account receives a minimum payment for 4 months in a row - even if those payments are on time. That should be criminal. Default should be defined as missing 3 payments in a row, or more than 5 payments in a year later than 15 days. Lenders could, if they desired, be more lenient than that, but not more strict.

As for merchant credit, and the phenomenon of enticing customers with rewards for applying for credit, I do not see that as a problem government should be involved with - except to the extent of fraud prevention. People who just "gotta have it now" don't need a mothering government to watch out for them - they need to learn to watch out for themselves.

About the only regulation I would desire there is the print on the contract has to be the same size all through. No ultra fine print you need a microfiche reader to see.

I agree with the above completely. This is where the laws are seriously in need of re-tooling. There is no way in hell they should be able to charge people like the woman in Desh's article 25-28%. None. They use the excuse that they have to cover all the "defaults" when it is typically their ever-increasing interest charges that lead to the "defaults" so it is essentially a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Stories like the one Desh posted should be an example to everyone. Obviously the woman made a series of errors and should be held accountable for her actions... but the credit card companies and mortgage lenders also share in the blame.

 

[Topspin]

to say that is most or even the majority of the problem is rediculous.
There are shows on TV showing low wage earners buying properties and trading them like they are penny stocks.

 

[uscitizen]

to say that is most or even the majority of the problem is rediculous.
There are shows on TV showing low wage earners buying properties and trading them like they are penny stocks.

LOL, and you believe that crap on TV ? they are advertisements dummy. made to sell get rich kit plans to the stupid and desperate.

 

[Topspin]

Yes I believe interviews on the news when someone with your level of education buys a million dollar condo and has to forclose when the price goes down.

 

[uscitizen]

True the news is getting more like infomericals.

 

[Topspin]

I agree with regs on the desh isuues,
I just think that speculation is exponentially more the problem.
Shit I saw and article this morning saying bring way more cash for a mortgage. ie 5%
LOL 20% used to be the standard and then 10%. I was out of the mortgage getting business for 20yrs so yes I did not see that fiasco coming.

 

[Damocles]

What part of "I fully agree new regulations need to be instilled to curb the phenomenon of predatory lending." is incomprehensible to you?

The part where you said, "I fully agree new regulations need to be instilled to curb the phenomenon of predatory lending."

Because she is always projecting rather than reading. Later she'll say how she said this and was "excoriated" for her view. She has perpetual persecution syndrome. I think she caught it from the Christians.

 

[evince]

What part of "I fully agree new regulations need to be instilled to curb the phenomenon of predatory lending." is incomprehensible to you?

There were regulations that curbed the way these loans dwere then packaged and sold to investors who were no fully aware of the sub prime risk in the package.

In 1999 Phil Gramm sponsered a bill which dismantled them.
They had protected the American public from this economic situation since the drepression. This is a deregulation problem created by the current R philosophy of screw the little people.

You are the one who refuses to understand.