Yakuda
Verified User
You keep changing the goalposts. Now it's quality of life. Who should decide that a fetus has or might have a poor quality of life? Yes mosquitos are human and so no problem crushing them to death
Abortion
- Thread starter Scott
- Start date
Scott
Verified User
I strongly disagree. If a human sperm manages to unite with a human egg, it turns into a zygote. If a zygote is given the resources to grow, generally inside of a pregnant female, it certainly has the capacity of becoming a born baby and from there, to reach all other stages of human development.
Scott
Verified User
It's the combined DNA of the human sperm and the human egg. Without the DNA from the human sperm, a zygote could not form. Sperm are clearly an absolutely crucial part of human development. I suspect you stopped reading my post after the part that you quoted. Regardless, Wikipedia's entry on zygotes makes what I said crystal clear, providing one know that the gametes the article mentions are the human sperm and the human egg:
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A zygote (/ˈzaɪˌɡoʊt/; from Ancient Greek ζυγωτός (zygōtós) 'joined, yoked', from ζυγοῦν (zygoun) 'to join, to yoke') is a eukaryotic cell formed by a fertilization event between two gametes.
The zygote's genome is a combination of the DNA in each gamete, and contains all of the genetic information of a new individual organism.
The sexual fusion of haploid cells is called karyogamy, the result of which is the formation of a diploid cell called the zygote or zygospore.
**
Source:
Zygote - Wikipedia
Scott
Verified User
Even Wikipedia disagrees with you on this. If you take a look at their "human growth and development" series, the first in the series is Gamete- that is, the human sperm and egg (aka ovum) cells. See for yourself if you don't believe me:
Development of the human body - Wikipedia
The stages are listed on the right hand side, starting with Gamete.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Yes, and you have been told to stick with the Individual words "living" and "human".
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Nope. You don't get to disagree and you don't get to reject math.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Your continued EVASION. You still haven't answered any of my listed questions despite my having answered all of yours.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Nope. What you want is to virtue signal your killing supremacy position, which you can't do without responding, but also cannot do without EVADING.
Scott
Verified User
That explains it
.I ask you to consider that what annoys you about the particular post that got you to make this image is AProudLefty's underlying point- a human zygote is far removed from a born baby.
Agreed. I also believe that a human zygote looks a lot more like its immediate predecessors, a human sperm and a human egg, than it does a birthed baby.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Nope. It amounts to EVADING simple, straightforward yet inconvenient questions that reveal the indefensible nature of your killing supremacy position. You NEED to virtue signal without revealing the true position you advocate.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
No. AProudLefty is just annoying; he hasn't contributed anything thought provoking to JPP, as you have apparently noticed.
How is this relevant to anything?
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Nope. You repeat yourself because you chant your dishonesty.
State officially for the record that a fetus with a heartbeat is a living human, otherwise you have your answer.
Scott
Verified User
True, but I suspect you didn't understand the point I was trying to make- having a brain doesn't mean that an animal is sacrosanct according to most of human society- some vegans may believe otherwise, but I suspect you aren't part of that crowd.
Scott
Verified User
I suspect that you will find that a lot of people on the pro choice side of this debate place a fair amount of importance on things like the intelligence of pre born humans vs. humans after birth. I certainly do.
Scott
Verified User
According to who? ChatGPT certainly doesn't see it that way:
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What stage in human development is the most important for brain development?
ChatGPT said:
The most critical stage for brain development is early childhood, particularly from birth to age 3. During this period, the brain is highly plastic, meaning it's incredibly adaptable and responsive to experiences.Here are a few key reasons why early childhood is so crucial:
- Rapid Growth: In the first few years, a child's brain grows at an astonishing rate, forming trillions of synaptic connections. By age 3, a child's brain is about 80% of the size of an adult brain.
- Sensitive Periods: There are specific "sensitive periods" for various aspects of brain development, such as language, motor skills, and emotional regulation. During these windows, the brain is particularly receptive to certain types of stimuli and experiences.
- Foundations for Later Development: Early experiences shape the structure and function of the brain, laying the foundation for cognitive abilities, social behavior, and emotional regulation. Positive, nurturing experiences can foster strong brain development, while negative experiences (like neglect or trauma) can have lasting effects.
- Neuroplasticity: The brain's plasticity during early childhood allows for significant learning, which is why infants and toddlers can acquire language and motor skills so rapidly.
**
I anticipated that you might want to know ChatGPT's sources, so I asked ChatGPT about them:
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...could you list your sources for what you just wrote?
While I don’t have the ability to pull in live sources directly, the information I shared is based on well-established scientific knowledge and research in neuroscience and developmental psychology. Here are some key sources and areas of research where the information I provided is grounded:
- Pediatric Brain Development:
- Shonkoff, J. P., & Phillips, D. A. (2000). From Neurons to Neighborhoods: The Science of Early Childhood Development. National Academies Press. This book summarizes the importance of early childhood in brain development and the effects of experiences on brain architecture.
- Neuroplasticity and Sensitive Periods:
- Kolb, B., & Whishaw, I. Q. (2015). An Introduction to Brain and Behavior. This textbook offers a detailed explanation of brain plasticity, sensitive periods, and the rapid growth of the brain in the early years of life.
- Johnson, M. H. (2001). Functional Brain Development in Humans. Nature Reviews Neuroscience. This review focuses on the critical periods for various aspects of brain development.
- Early Childhood Cognitive and Emotional Development:
- Center on the Developing Child, Harvard University. Their research highlights the significance of early experiences in shaping brain development, particularly in the first three years of life.
- Website: https://developingchild.harvard.edu/
- Barkley, R. A. (2006). Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder: A Handbook for Diagnosis and Treatment. This book discusses how early brain development affects later behavior and cognitive function, focusing on the development of executive function and self-regulation.
- Center on the Developing Child, Harvard University. Their research highlights the significance of early experiences in shaping brain development, particularly in the first three years of life.
- Neurogenesis and Synaptic Development:
- Poo, M. M., et al. (2016). Neurotrophins and Synaptic Plasticity. Annual Review of Neuroscience. This paper explores how the brain’s synaptic connections grow, especially during the early years.
- Huttenlocher, P. R. (1990). Morphometric Study of Human Cerebral Cortex Development. Neuropsychologia. This study shows the rate of synaptic development in early childhood and its decline with age.
- Impact of Early Adversity:
- Nelson, C. A., et al. (2007). Effects of Early Institutionalization on Brain and Behavioral Development. Developmental Science. This study investigates how early adverse conditions (like institutional care) can affect brain development and later outcomes.
These sources collectively form the backbone of our understanding of early brain development and its lifelong impact. You can look up these references for more in-depth reading on the subject.
**
Scott
Verified User
If the goal was to simply talk about what a human is, there was no need to put the term "living" behind it. But let's play your game. Here are wordnik's first 2 definitions for human:
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- noun A member of the primate genus Homo, especially a member of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other apes by a large brain and the capacity for speech.
- noun A person.
Source:
The first definition makes no mention of when a human "starts", so it's just like "living human" in that respect. The second doesn't either, but a compound word that includes person, that is, "natural person", does give a good idea, at least by implying that no one sees it as starting before conception. For the audience who may not have seen the definition of natural person before, I think the following quote is quite educational in that regard:
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Natural Person and Fetal Rights
The issue of whether an unborn fetus is considered a natural person, with all of the rights and protections associated with that status, has been a hot-button issue for a very long time. In the U.S., this issue is commonly referred to as “fetal rights,” and deals with not only issues of right to life (anti-abortion), but with protections related to the health and safety of the child from conception to birth. This is a complicated issue, with some people attempting to place a fetal age at which the baby can be considered “viable,” or alive; and others claiming that the baby has a right to life and protection from the moment of conception.**
Source:
Natural Person - Definition, Examples, Cases, Processes
Natural Person defined and explained with examples. Natural Person is a living human being, with certain rights and responsibilities under the law.
legaldictionary.net
Scott
Verified User
No, we haven't. As a matter of fact, Wikipedia explicitly puts human gametes, that is, sperm and eggs/ovum, as the first stage of human development. I know you don't like it, but I don't care- this is for the audience who may actually believe you without this important bit of information:
Development of the human body - Wikipedia
The stages of human growth and development are listed in the top right- Gamete is listed as the first stage.
gfm7175
Mega MAGA
Only your [lack of] intelligence.
AProudLefty
The remora of JPP
A person devoid of intelligence trying to insult others' intelligence? Priceless.Only your [lack of] intelligence.
gfm7175
Mega MAGA
My view is that you are setting aside parts of the whole process whenever it is convenient for you to do so. Here, you are setting aside the fact that a woman (and a man) are WILLINGLY CHOOSING to have sex, knowing full well that their choice to have sex MAY result in a pregnancy. IOW, they are GAMBLING.
Therefore, the issue isn't "forcing someone to grow a fetus". The issue is actually "you gambled and you LOST; these are the consequences of a gambling loss". People naturally don't like losing (or accepting the consequences of losing).
We agree to this. I maintain that this is an extremely small portion of women, but yes, there are some cases of rape, whatever that number may be.
I feel VERY sympathetic towards the rape victim, but I ultimately do not think that an innocent unborn child should have to receive the death penalty due to the sin of another (the rapist).