Altruism

evince said:
Maybe you should look the word up

It doesn’t mean what you claim it means
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It means selflessly. For the benefit of others.

I am saying that if it brings joy to the person doing the action then it is not purely selflessly. It is in part for personal fulfillment per the hedonistic calculus.
 
Oscillator said:
I am a firm believer that all people follow the Hedonistic Calculus of Bentham. Not that everyone wants to live like Caligula, but rather everyone seeks to minimize their pain and maximize their happiness.

To that end I am of the opinion that altruism doesn't exist per se.

If someone does something for another person that is purely altruistic they would have to be doing it because they WANTED to do it and therefore they felt it was something that would increase their happiness

An example: a soldier throws himself on a grenade. He does this out of love for his compatriots and he wants to see them survive. Which means he is acting according to the Hedonistic Calculus in that he will be happy if they survive.

The only way an action can be truly altruistic would be if the person doing it did NOT WANT TO DO IT and sees no value to the action that might make them happy in some way or decrease their discomfort.

If the person doing the altruistic thing in any way gains something from it (as simply as "I want my compatriots to thrive as it will make me happy to know that") it eliminates it's altruistic intention.

Basically you should throw yourself on the grenade if you hate your compatriots and want them to continue to exist unhappily.
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Words have definitions


Giving blood helps the person giving that blood in no physical way


Humans do it because they don’t mind giving to benefit others even though it’s a physical negative and time eating practice


That is the definition of altruism
 
evince said:
Words have definitions


Giving blood helps the person giving that blood in no physical way


Humans do it because they don’t mind giving to benefit others even though it’s a physical negative and time eating practice


That is the definition of altruism
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But it DOES make the person happy which means the person gets a reward for doing it. Happiness is its reward here (remember there's a reason why I introduced the topic in conjunction with the hedonistic calculus).

If one gets a personal reward for doing something it is no longer "selfless" which is key to the definition of altruism.
 
Oscillator said:
It means selflessly. For the benefit of others.

I am saying that if it brings joy to the person doing the action then it is not purely selflessly. It is in part for personal fulfillment per the hedonistic calculus.
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Mankind would not exist if humans didn’t possess emotions that found them caring for others to one’s own detriment



It’s the product of a well functioning human mind



Yes humans are mostly good


Why do you seek to erase that concept?
 
This all gets down to empathy. Those that have it tend to be positive contributors, those that lack it are usually not positive contributors.
 
evince said:
Mankind would not exist if humans didn’t possess emotions that found them caring for others to one’s own detriment



It’s the product of a well functioning human mind



Yes humans are mostly good


Why do you seek to erase that concept?
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This is what is called a "philosophical discussion". It is not intended to erase any concepts, it is what people do who like to think about concepts. This is called an "idle discussion" in that it is merely playing with concepts. No one is asking you to harm anyone or give up the virtues you have. It is just a discussion.
 
Oscillator said:
This is what is called a "philosophical discussion". It is not intended to erase any concepts, it is what people do who like to think about concepts. This is called an "idle discussion" in that it is merely playing with concepts. No one is asking you to harm anyone or give up the virtues you have. It is just a discussion.
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And based on the wrong definition of a word
 
Oscillator said:
No, those are SYNONYMS (it's right there in the post you posted).

The definition is:

Disinterested or selfless concern for the well-being of others, esp. as a principle of action. (OED)
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Sorry but the synonym line with an arrow is to click on and see synonyms



It is the definition on the page I posted
 
evince said:
Altruism is about caring for others


So your example doesn’t fly
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Altruism is not JUST caring for others. It is caring for others UNSELFISHLY. If one gains something from it (in this case being happy) then it is not unselfish.

Again, I am not saying it isn't good to do, just that it isn't unselfish. It is for the benefit of the doer as well as to the benefit of the person for whom it is being done.
 
Oscillator said:
I am a firm believer that all people follow the Hedonistic Calculus of Bentham. Not that everyone wants to live like Caligula, but rather everyone seeks to minimize their pain and maximize their happiness.

To that end I am of the opinion that altruism doesn't exist per se.

If someone does something for another person that is purely altruistic they would have to be doing it because they WANTED to do it and therefore they felt it was something that would increase their happiness

An example: a soldier throws himself on a grenade. He does this out of love for his compatriots and he wants to see them survive. Which means he is acting according to the Hedonistic Calculus in that he will be happy if they survive.

The only way an action can be truly altruistic would be if the person doing it did NOT WANT TO DO IT and sees no value to the action that might make them happy in some way or decrease their discomfort.

If the person doing the altruistic thing in any way gains something from it (as simply as "I want my compatriots to thrive as it will make me happy to know that") it eliminates it's altruistic intention.

Basically you should throw yourself on the grenade if you hate your compatriots and want them to continue to exist unhappily.
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Altruism exists


Because it’s about caring for others unselfishly


There is no caveat that says altruism isn’t supposed to make you proud of your actions
 
evince said:
Altruism exists


Because it’s about caring for others unselfishly


There is no caveat that says altruism isn’t supposed to make you proud of your actions
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But if you are proud of your actions then you gained something from them. Hence it is NOT unselfish. It is mutually beneficial to both parties, but not unselfish.
 
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