American Federal Debt To Absolutely SOAR

Hello Michael_Panetta,

Michael_Panetta said:
Debt is money and money is debt. The day America pays off its entire debt is the day it goes broke.
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Yeah, well you do have to watch the debt/GDP ratio.

You let that get too high and you're in trouble. Big trouble.

Our GDP is what allows us to have a certain level of debt.

But that is not unlimited.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Michael_Panetta,



Yeah, well you do have to watch the debt/GDP ratio.

You let that get too high and you're in trouble. Big trouble.

Our GDP is what allows us to have a certain level of debt.

But that is not unlimited.
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I was referring to fractional reserve banking. 99% of people don't grasp how debt is what keeps us afloat.
 
Hello Michael_Panetta,

Michael_Panetta said:
I was referring to fractional reserve banking. 99% of people don't grasp how debt is what keeps us afloat.
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Math eludes a lot of people. The debt is something that doesn't affect their day-to-day lives. People tend to take an 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude; 'somebody else's problem.'

That's fine for some individuals but if the entire country takes that approach, we are screwed and it will destroy the country. Action must be taken. People will not like it. That doesn't change the fact that changes must be made. We cannot go on like this.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Michael_Panetta,



Math eludes a lot of people. The debt is something that doesn't affect their day-to-day lives. People tend to take an 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude; 'somebody else's problem.'

That's fine for some individuals but if the entire country takes that approach, we are screwed and it will destroy the country. Action must be taken. People will not like it. That doesn't change the fact that changes must be made. We cannot go on like this.
Click to expand...

What I meant is that debt is necessary. The day we "pay" our debt is the day that our money becomes worthless. This is why I had said that money is debt and debt is money. The government and our economy make their profit solely on debt, which is what fractional reserve banking is.
 
Hello Michael_Panetta,

Michael_Panetta said:
What I meant is that debt is necessary. The day we "pay" our debt is the day that our money becomes worthless. This is why I had said that money is debt and debt is money. The government and our economy make their profit solely on debt, which is what fractional reserve banking is.
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Certainly a lot of money is made that way, but that is not the sole source of income in the USA.

The lower half of income earners in the USA is full of people who work for every cent they get. Many in the middle get some income from investing, but still get most of their income from labor. Only the upper half is strewn with people who get more income from investing than from working.
 
PoliTalker said:
You think it's bad now, wait till the coming budget showdown.

Revenue is insufficient to cover expenses.

Tax hikes are indicated but Republicans will block that.

All the Republican deficit hawks are on their way back from their long hiatus.

They will refuse to do anything about the imbalanced budget, and then blame Biden for it.

Wait for it.
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You got that right, miraculously, all the GOP concern over deficits/debt will return come 1/21
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello NiftyNiblick,



Yeah, I know you have this vision of two Americas split along political lines but the only problem with that is people don't live in easily divided according to politics areas. It doesn't matter where you propose to place the boundaries, they will always be fought over. Like India and Pakistan.

I just can't see that working.
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If you consider what we have now to be working, PoliTalker, or even tolerable for that matter, there's obvious no overlap in our values, much less in our thinking.

India and Pakistan are infinitely better off partitioned than if they were one nation trying to live under the same government.
Imagine the problems then.

But you live in America, the planet's cauldron of hatred.
You don't have to imagine.

You just have to observe with clear rather than rose-colored lenses.
The "America the Beautiful" that you love is a figment of your imagination.
Just the circumstances under which we came into being, with slavery and all of the other inequities, should clearly reveal to the unprejudiced mind that America the Beautiful NEVER existed.

We're the world's oldest democracy, it's true.
And virtually all of the more modern ones learned from our mistakes. They do it a lot better than we do.
Yet we still worship the obsolete work of the founding fathers like deranged jesus-freaks worship embryos.
Well not "we." I obviously don't.

So I'm a separatist and you're not. We've known that for a while now.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
If you consider what we have now to be working, PoliTalker, or even tolerable for that matter, there's obvious no overlap in our values, much less in our thinking.

India and Pakistan are infinitely better off partitioned than if they were one nation trying to live under the same government.
Imagine the problems then.

But you live in America, the planet's cauldron of hatred.
You don't have to imagine.

You just have to observe with clear rather than rose-colored lenses.
The "America the Beautiful" that you love is a figment of your imagination.
Just the circumstances under which we came into being, with slavery and all of the other inequities, should clearly reveal to the unprejudiced mind that America the Beautiful NEVER existed.

We're the world's oldest democracy, it's true.
And virtually all of the more modern ones learned from our mistakes. They do it a lot better than we do.
Yet we still worship the obsolete work of the founding fathers like deranged jesus-freaks worship embryos.
Well not "we." I obviously don't.

So I'm a separatist and you're not. We've known that for a while now.
Click to expand...

What are you going to separate too? You want a leftism that even people in California often don’t vote for.
 
cawacko said:
What are you going to separate too? You want a leftism that even people in California often don’t vote for.
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If I were younger and had the means and access to move to Scandinavia, that's where I'd go.
I don't like everything about the place, especially the winters.
I'd go broke importing American food which is my favorite food in the world.
But in terms of being civilized, they make us look like knuckle-dragging apes.

It won't happen in my lifetime, but everything that I do politically is to make us more like them.
And you can't do that with crackers in Mississippi and Oklahoma.
They're just a different. less evolved species.
They're just incapable of being human.
 
Hello NiftyNiblick,

NiftyNiblick said:
If you consider what we have now to be working, PoliTalker, or even tolerable for that matter, there's obvious no overlap in our values, much less in our thinking.

India and Pakistan are infinitely better off partitioned than if they were one nation trying to live under the same government.
Imagine the problems then.

But you live in America, the planet's cauldron of hatred.
You don't have to imagine.

You just have to observe with clear rather than rose-colored lenses.
The "America the Beautiful" that you love is a figment of your imagination.
Just the circumstances under which we came into being, with slavery and all of the other inequities, should clearly reveal to the unprejudiced mind that America the Beautiful NEVER existed.

We're the world's oldest democracy, it's true.
And virtually all of the more modern ones learned from our mistakes. They do it a lot better than we do.
Yet we still worship the obsolete work of the founding fathers like deranged jesus-freaks worship embryos.
Well not "we." I obviously don't.

So I'm a separatist and you're not. We've known that for a while now.
Click to expand...

Who is gonna tell the Republicans living in the new Blue America that they have to leave and move to someplace in the new Red America?

And if they don't agree?

What you're gonna have is two nations with exactly the same problems. Maybe one would be mostly Red and one mostly Blue, but you're still going to have the dissidents in each nation, and they won't be silent. Neither side will get to hear the end of the other side.

And then each nation would be trying to help the minority in the other nation so they could take over both nations.

The more I think about it, the more I really try to visualize what that might be like, the less viable it sounds.

You're certainly free to push for this, and as you say, we disagree on it, but I'm happy to discuss it as long as you are.

It's an interesting idea for academic discussion purposes.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
If I were younger and had the means and access to move to Scandinavia, that's where I'd go.
I don't like everything about the place, especially the winters.
I'd go broke importing American food which is my favorite food in the world.
But in terms of being civilized, they make us look like knuckle-dragging apes.

It won't happen in my lifetime, but everything that I do politically is to make us more like them.
And you can't do that with crackers in Mississippi and Oklahoma.
They're just a different. less evolved species.
They're just incapable of being human.
Click to expand...

Californians just voted down Propositions that would have brought back affirmative action, increased taxes on commercial properties, would have allowed cities to implement more rent control and forced Uber and Lyft to make their drivers employees.

Does that qualify as incapable of being human or just a blip on our otherwise progressive outlook?
 
cawacko said:
Californians just voted down Propositions that would have brought back affirmative action, increased taxes on commercial properties, would have allowed cities to implement more rent control and forced Uber and Lyft to make their drivers employees.

Does that qualify as incapable of being human or just a blip on our otherwise progressive outlook?
Click to expand...

I'd need more specifics on the issues.
I'm not an affirmative action fact because I prefer a color-blind approach.
The other three issues would have been a big YES on my ballot.

I don't think California or New York or Massachusetts are perfect.

I just think the blood red states are absolutely deplorable. I find the white jesus freaks walking in public with guns to be especially reptilian.
 
cawacko said:
Californians just voted down Propositions that would have brought back affirmative action, increased taxes on commercial properties, would have allowed cities to implement more rent control and forced Uber and Lyft to make their drivers employees.

Does that qualify as incapable of being human or just a blip on our otherwise progressive outlook?
Click to expand...

Wait a minute, you aren’t watching the Arizona game?
 
Hello NiftyNiblick,

NiftyNiblick said:
If I were younger and had the means and access to move to Scandinavia, that's where I'd go.
I don't like everything about the place, especially the winters.
I'd go broke importing American food which is my favorite food in the world.
But in terms of being civilized, they make us look like knuckle-dragging apes.

It won't happen in my lifetime, but everything that I do politically is to make us more like them.
And you can't do that with crackers in Mississippi and Oklahoma.
They're just a different. less evolved species.
They're just incapable of being human.
Click to expand...

They are every bit as human as you or I.

I cannot fall for cheap dehumanizing the other side.

There are so much better arguments to make.

We can build a better America.

If America is like an airplane we can recognize that an airplane needs two wings to fly, one on the left side and one on the right side. It doesn't work with only one.

Our political diversity is to be celebrated, in a way. It means we have freedom to say what we wish, feel the way we want to about things.

The left and the right depend on each other to point out the downside of the desires of each side.

Our big challenge right now is to simply relearn how to do that in a constructive way.

You know, the right often sets the discussions. Nobody is talking about the debt right now but you can bet it's coming.

Just as soon as President-Elect Biden takes office and wants to pass legislation, the migratory Republican deficit hawks will be returning in droves to roost on fake concern for the debt they have cared nothing about for 4 years.
 
PoliTalker said:
You think it's bad now, wait till the coming budget showdown.

Revenue is insufficient to cover expenses.

Tax hikes are indicated but Republicans will block that.

All the Republican deficit hawks are on their way back from their long hiatus.

They will refuse to do anything about the imbalanced budget, and then blame Biden for it.

Wait for it.
Click to expand...

America's standard of living will plummet...anyone who wants to know what is coming should look at Argentina.

It's locked in now.
 
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