America's learning

Umm Dano most high tech started with NASA. It would help if you knew what you were talking about. The internet started with universities, etc...
 
uscitizen said:
Dems in congress need to push to have the complete report presented to them.
In confidence if necessary.
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Therein lies the REAL question for liberals and so-called progressives. Sure, America is slowly learning, but are we, liberals and progressives? As long as we keep "hoping" that democrats will do the right thing, then we've learned nothing.

Without a force, mechanism, power, or persuasion to make democrats show some courage, then it won't happen. The Democrat Party is a centrist party, so they're doing what centrist do .. wait on the wind, force, mechanism, power, or persuasion to dictate what they must do.

I'm not sure I know what "progressive" is even supposed to mean. Seeing the actions of some "progressives" leads me to believe it could mean damn near anything, including those who think "progressive" shelters them from attacks on liberals.

The American Left, although having been on the right side of issues, hasn't shown the courage to become a force within the Democratic Party. We've been settling for the back of the bus and giving up our seat when the DLC demanded it. There's an historical example of the power you gain when you refuse to give up your seat .. on the bus, or at the table.

The Democratic Party NEEDS the Left at the polls in '08, particularly if they nominate Hillary. The only way they can balance the anti-Hillary vote is with lots of liberals. Hillary says she's no liberal, but she'll need lots of 'em at the polls. What do liberals get in return? It won't be the end of the Iraq War for damn sure. It won't be more seperation in corporation and state. It won't be the end of Bush-lite policies.

More than likely liberals will end up with the crumbs of the table, not a place at it.

Americans are waking up to some of the deceptions that have been taking place right in front of their faces, and in many regards, that's due to the awareness and drumbeat of the Left. But it's time to grow bigger cojones and stand up to the centrists. Take the Democratic Party back or get another.
 
blackascoal said:
Therein lies the REAL question for liberals and so-called progressives. Sure, America is slowly learning, but are we, liberals and progressives? As long as we keep "hoping" that democrats will do the right thing, then we've learned nothing.

Without a force, mechanism, power, or persuasion to make democrats show some courage, then it won't happen. The Democrat Party is a centrist party, so they're doing what centrist do .. wait on the wind, force, mechanism, power, or persuasion to dictate what they must do.

I'm not sure I know what "progressive" is even supposed to mean. Seeing the actions of some "progressives" leads me to believe it could mean damn near anything, including those who think "progressive" shelters them from attacks on liberals.

The American Left, although having been on the right side of issues, hasn't shown the courage to become a force within the Democratic Party. We've been settling for the back of the bus and giving up our seat when the DLC demanded it. There's an historical example of the power you gain when you refuse to give up your seat .. on the bus, or at the table.

The Democratic Party NEEDS the Left at the polls in '08, particularly if they nominate Hillary. The only way they can balance the anti-Hillary vote is with lots of liberals. Hillary says she's no liberal, but she'll need lots of 'em at the polls. What do liberals get in return? It won't be the end of the Iraq War for damn sure. It won't be more seperation in corporation and state. It won't be the end of Bush-lite policies.

More than likely liberals will end up with the crumbs of the table, not a place at it.

Americans are waking up to some of the deceptions that have been taking place right in front of their faces, and in many regards, that's due to the awareness and drumbeat of the Left. But it's time to grow bigger cojones and stand up to the centrists. Take the Democratic Party back or get another.
Click to expand...



Face it blackascoal, the new demarcation is globalist corporatist sellout, or non- globalist corporatist sellout. As much as you may despise me, we only have each other at this point.
 
"There is no such thing as a flaw in a free market, "

It depends on what you look to the free market for.

Do you trust a free market to take care of our national security for us?

Do you trust a free market to eliminate pollutants that can harm our health?
 
Onceler said:
"There is no such thing as a flaw in a free market, "

It depends on what you look to the free market for.

Do you trust a free market to take care of our national security for us?

Do you trust a free market to eliminate pollutants that can harm our health?
Click to expand...

There are flaws in free markets. But the medical system is not free market now.

The fascist insurance companies have made it unfree. For instance, doctors are FORBIDDEN to charge indigents less money if they want to do business with the insurance company. These rules reveal the totalitarian fascist nature of the entire industry.
A corrupt government controlled by corrupt monopolist fascists allows them to use force to protect their cartel-like situation.
 
AssHatZombie said:
There are flaws in free markets. But the medical system is not free market now.

The fascist insurance companies have made it unfree. For instance, doctors are FORBIDDEN to charge indigents less money if they want to do business with the insurance company. These rules reveal the totalitarian fascist nature of the entire industry.
A corrupt government controlled by corrupt monopolist fascists allows them to use force to protect their cartel-like situation.
Click to expand...
But this is exactly what a "free" market will always produce.

Government is a necessity. There is not, has never been and never will be a human society without a government. An unregulated market -- one in which people are free to exercise their wealth to whatever ends they wish -- will always and inevitably produce a fascistic, corporatist government. Marx was neither the first nor the last to make this observation, he was merely the most articulate thus far.

The only differences between modern socialists and the more pragmatic free market libertarians lie in where we first look for danger and, thus, the need for regulation. Which is to say that we're right and they're wrong, but they mean well. :cool:
 
blackascoal said:
A cold chill ran down my spine as I read that .. before the humor and utter ridiculousness of such a thought set in.
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AssHat is, basically, what you get when you let anger at injustice devolve into hate for certain individuals. It's a perfectly natural progression, certainly, but a destructive one.

He's become a fanatic, to put it in the vernacular. :(
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Oh my yes. let's hope he hasn't many unofficial actions left in him either. Maybe, just maybe, even the Repukes have learned that he's toxic. :)
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Ohh he will plenty of unofficial action in the next election. Why do you think he had to get out of the WH ?
 
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