An atheist philosophy of life: hedonistic utilitarianism.

[Dutch Uncle]

Because of all this horseshit "educated" people can no longer distinguish between a man and a woman. People.make decisions all the time now based on their desire even though they are woefully uninformed. This horseshit has been pumped into children in the indoctrination centers for years. We don't produce useful things like engineers or plumbers or carpenters anymore we produce soy boys who arent sure they're even boys.

^^^
Proof Yak is demented.

I'm educated, Yak. What makes you think I can't tell the difference between a man and a woman?

Only demented dumbasses and fucking morons don't understand that "woefully uninformed" means "uneducated" or "poorly educated". That's you, Yak, not me.

 

[Cypress]

deontological is also dumb because of course you should consider consequences.

There were Presbyterian ministers and Lutheran pastors who were murdered because they didn't consider the consequences of speaking out against established, lawful, and entrenched social conventions like slavery and Jewish oppression.

 

[Cypress]

l

A differing POV on Singer's beliefs:

The Ethics of Peter Singer: He Believes What?

We need to appreciate that these ideas are not being whispered on the dark web or behind closed doors, but openly in one of America’s Ivy League Universities, and in some of the United States’ and Australia’s most respected news and journalistic outlets. I

au.thegospelcoalition.org

...Notice the comparison he makes? He suggests that the life of a dog or cat has more value and ‘dignity’ than a human being with limited cognitive faculties. Not only that, in true utilitarian style he denies Ashley’s intrinsic worth as a human being, suggesting that she has worth only insofar as she is loved by her family.

In a recent article in the Journal of Practical Ethics, Peter Singer tried to justify killing children with Down Syndrome....


While there's a logic to such a thing, especially to ease suffering, I'm not exactly sure taking that path leads to peace and prosperity on Earth. It looks more like Huxley's "Brave New World".

Unless specifically genetically-altered from Homo sapien sapien, human behavior seems to follow some pretty brutal paths if allowed to do so. In the long run, those paths lead to happiness for a few and sorrow for the many.

Good catch. This guy sounds pretty far out in left field. I was trying too find a famous atheist that could represent atheism well because I was tired of using Richard Dawkins as the high priest of atheism.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

There were Presbyterian ministers and Lutheran pastors who were murdered because they didn't consider the consequences of speaking out against established, lawful, and entrenched social conventions like slavery and Jewish oppression.

They may have considered the Earthly consequences but had faith in the spiritual consequences that would result.

 

[Kafka]

Is a safe and stable society subjective? I'm not sure of your position here. Hitler came to power after the Brits forced austerity on Germany. The US is no longer stable because the security of good paying jobs have been outsourced, so workers are once again being squeezed.

I'm speaking in more general evolutionary terms. The reasons humans have been so successful is that they are a social animal and social animals cluster in groups.

Isolated tribes around the globe don't deal with the stress of people dependent on institutions.

But those isolated tribes still survive because they function as a group. Humans are a social animal.

 

[Kafka]

Because of all this horseshit "educated" people can no longer distinguish between a man and a woman. People.make decisions all the time now based on their desire even though they are woefully uninformed. This horseshit has been pumped into children in the indoctrination centers for years. We don't produce useful things like engineers or plumbers or carpenters anymore we produce soy boys who arent sure they're even boys.

Wow. Ummmm, no. This is a philosophical discussion that has nothing to do with indoctrinating kids. This has been a point of discussion for humans going back millennia.

And you think you need to pull it all back into the narrow little culture war box you understand. Sorry, it's not that.

 

[Cypress]

They may have considered the Earthly consequences but had faith in the spiritual consequences that would result.

Agreed
Utilitarianism asks us to consider and act on that which brings us the greatest happiness or pleasure. When Dietrich Boenhoffer spoke out against Nazi liquidation of the Jews he was not doing so in a way that would benefit his happiness.

 

[Yakuda]

Wow. Ummmm, no. This is a philosophical discussion that has nothing to do with indoctrinating kids. This has been a point of discussion for humans going back millennia.

And you think you need to pull it all back into the narrow little culture war box you understand. Sorry, it's not that.

Wow. Ummm, yes. See how easy that is. It has everything to do with indoctrinating kids. Your reaction proves it.

And you think you need to put it into the narrow little cultural war box you understand. Sorry that's exactly how it is. You made no point and did it poorly.

 

[Cypress]

They certainly place more value on wealth than human life. They scream about the "rights of the unborn" then toss families out into the desert and seek to abandon others to savage invading armies.

I certainly think that war, murder, human sacrifice, slavery, oppression are so prominent in human history, it's hard to believe that there is just an inherent belief in the sacred value of a human life, without profound transformations in human thinking.

 

[Kafka]

Wow. Ummm, yes. See how easy that is. It has everything to do with indoctrinating kids. Your reaction proves it.

Not everything in the world is indoctrination of kids.

And you think you need to put it into the narrow little cultural war box you understand. Sorry that's exactly how it is. You made no point and did it poorly.

No. You are clearly out of your depth here. You want to drag literally everything into the MAGA sewer. No one cares what MAGA folks think about philosophical topics. It couldn't be of less interest to anyone. And your post is why.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

I think that the human conscience imprinted on people's minds is predisposed or responsive to being ultimately reached by persuasion to do the right thing -- even if it can take centuries of persuasion by prophets, sages, and activists.

This is certainly possible, but I don't understand how it would work.
I think that everything being completely random is equally possible.

In many ways, I would rather the latter be true,
because it would reflect less failure on our species,
but I'm not one to think what I want to be true
has any relevance to what is.

We have many poster on JPP, however, who could not truthfully say that,
but that discussion would be off-topic.

 

[Cypress]

This is certainly possible, but I don't understand how it would work.
I think that everything being completely random is equally possible.

If everything is random, including the evolution and development of our minds, why would we trust it? If my reasoning capabilities and conscience came from random processes, what guarantee do I have that I can trust it?

In many ways, I would rather the latter be true,
because it would reflect less failure on our species,
but I'm not one to think what I want to be true
has any relevance to what is.

We have many poster on JPP, however, who could not truthfully say that,
but that discussion would be off-topic.

A moral conscience doesn't just come to us randomly by the vagaries of Darwinian evolution. Otherwise, people would not have spent years of their lives studying with Confucious, Sidhartha Gautama, Socrates to cultivate virtue and learning to perceive righteousness and moral truth. Everyone would just naturally be virtuous and moral people without even trying.

I think the flaw in deontology is that you cannot make something like telling the truth an absolute incontestable moral imperative. If Nazi soldiers ask you if you have seen any Jews around, what you probably need to do is lie your ass off to them and say you haven't seen any.

 

[Yakuda]

Not everything in the world is indoctrination of kids.



No. You are clearly out of your depth here. You want to drag literally everything into the MAGA sewer. No one cares what MAGA folks think about philosophical topics. It couldn't be of less interest to anyone. And your post is why.

Maybe not but education sure as shit is.

You're posting so it's clearly of interest to you. You can't even see how fucking stupid you are.

 

[Kafka]

Maybe not but education sure as shit is.

You're posting so it's clearly of interest to you. You can't even see how fucking stupid you are.

So in your world no one discussed philosophy except in a classroom?

And you think _I_ am the stupid one?

 

[Yakuda]

So in your world no one discussed philosophy except in a classroom?

And you think _I_ am the stupid one?

Where did I suggest that? You pigs indoctrinate kids in other places too.

You are the stupid one. It has nothing to do with what I think.

 

[Kafka]

A moral conscience doesn't just come to us randomly by the vagaries of Darwinian evolution.

Offered without evidence. Indeed the planet is replete with creatures whose functions are often instinctive to preserve the animal's existence.

Otherwise, people would not have spent years of their lives studying with Confucious, Sidhartha Gautama, Socrates to cultivate virtue and learning to perceive righteousness and moral truth. Everyone would just naturally be virtuous and moral people without even trying.

This is a strange syllogism.

I thought you believed in some form of "objective truth" outside of the mere human mind as the source of morality. Now you seem to be saying that morality comes from reading what other people hypothesize.

I think the flaw in deontology is that you cannot make something like telling the truth an absolute incontestable moral imperative. If Nazi soldiers ask you if you have seen any Jews around, what you probably need to do is lie your ass off to them and say you haven't seen any.

You seem to be making a pretty solid case for morality not being a universal.

 

[Kafka]

Where did I suggest that? You pigs indoctrinate kids in other places too.

You are the stupid one. It has nothing to do with what I think.

Since you don't like discussing philosophy why are you on here? Is this like @Hume always coming onto threads to announce that they don't care about the thread?

 

[Yakuda]

Since you don't like discussing philosophy why are you on here? Is this like @Hume always coming onto threads to announce that they don't care about the thread?

So you can't show where I suggested what you claimed? That's par for the course with you.
And theres another delusional thought you have. Let try again, where did I say I didn't care about the thread? I said not was ours horseshit. I see now why you are a leftist. You respond to the voices in your head and not to what people actually say.

 

[Kafka]

So you can't show where I suggested what you claimed? That's par for the course with you.
And theres another delusional thought you have. Let try again, where did I say I didn't care about the thread? I said not was ours horseshit. I see now why you are a leftist. You respond to the voices in your head and not to what people actually say.

Stick to the topic of the thread. No one has time for your Hume-like behavior.

 

[Cypress]

I thought you believed in some form of "objective truth" outside of the mere human mind as the source of morality. Now you seem to be saying that morality comes from reading what other people hypothesize.

You seem to be making a pretty solid case for morality not being a universal.

^ This is unbelievably dumb. Did you think you were born knowing universal truths like the Pythagorean Theorem or the laws of physics?

A human has to be taught or convinced of physical, mathematical, and moral truths by people like Newton, Pythagoras, or Confucious. A commitment to truth takes work - you aren't just handed it on a silver platter when you are a baby.