Another Christian Terrorist for Rape

Bullshit. I looked up that case and it was from 1969, and was against Ohio. There are a lot of lawyers in this country Soc, and just because you are one doesn't make you right. After all for every single court case in this country, every single day, a lawyer loses their case.
This is why non lawyers really don't have any place arguing law. Yes the case was from Ohio. Yes it was from 1969. But it is still the law of the land because that case was decided by the highest court in the US and all other courts MUST abide by it. Just like Brown v. The Board was a 1954 case and was in Kansas it STILL applies today, TO EVERY STATE.:palm:
 
Your spitting hairs, but your right, black people died, so did white people for civil rights, but if the white guys who were in power didn't pass the laws it would have just kept going. But a great deal of white people who DID have the power saw the justice in it, and without them it would not be. And yes, god forbid someone who thinks that the WTC was brought down by GWB and co might see this and say something to me. The horror, all the humanity the horror.

I love the way she uses BAC as if he is her personal bodyguard. In actual fact there were a fair few whites active in the civil rights movement and a good many Northern Jews.

http://www.jcpa.org/cjc/cjc-chanes-06.htm
 
This is why non lawyers really don't have any place arguing law. Yes the case was from Ohio. Yes it was from 1969. But it is still the law of the land because that case was decided by the highest court in the US and all other courts MUST abide by it. Just like Brown v. The Board was a 1954 case and was in Kansas it STILL applies today, TO EVERY STATE.:palm:

Evidently the concept of legal precedence is an alien one to her.
 
Just a quick primer on free speech and the first amendment. What the Supreme Court has said about the first amendment is the law. It is also the floor for free speech, below there you cannot go. States are free to pass laws that EXPAND free speech under their state constitutions, but a state cannot pass a law that says if you hold a sign that says Ryan White Burns in Hell you have broken the law. That violates the first amendment. The guy hold the sign, the content is offensive, it's idiotic and wrong. State funded colleges cannot remove people like him. They can say that NO ONE can hold signs in that area he was in, or that during a certain time no one can hold any sign. But when you aim solely at the content of his sign, and it does not attempt to incite imminent lawless actions, you have violated the first amendment, and probably the free speech amendments in the state constitution as well.
 
This is why non lawyers really don't have any place arguing law. Yes the case was from Ohio. Yes it was from 1969. But it is still the law of the land because that case was decided by the highest court in the US and all other courts MUST abide by it. Just like Brown v. The Board was a 1954 case and was in Kansas it STILL applies today, TO EVERY STATE.:palm:

Considering that many Universities have restricted free speech, particuarly in school newspapers, I don't believe it applies to universities. I believe these law suits continue to be brought, and I don't think one has ended up in the Supreme court just yet. According to what I have been able to find.

Here is the thing, like I said, every court case? A lawyer loses it. There's always two lawyers. One wins, one loses. That's a lot of losses. There are millions of attornys and a lot of them suck. I don't accept you as the final word just because you're one of millions of lawyers.

Most importantly? I'll discuss this and express my opinion without you shutting me down as you attempted to do with your second post on this thread. BEcause even if the supreme court did rule that free speech on the college campuses was absolute, I'd disagree.

Edit to say, I definitely believe this case skirts incitement, and goes beyond free speech.
 
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Your spitting hairs, but your right, black people died, so did white people for civil rights, but if the white guys who were in power didn't pass the laws it would have just kept going. But a great deal of white people who DID have the power saw the justice in it, and without them it would not be. And yes, god forbid someone who thinks that the WTC was brought down by GWB and co might see this and say something to me. The horror, all the humanity the horror.

Splitting hairs??? You made a very stupid post and I imagine you realized it afterwards...well, maybe. Who knows.

And this post is bs too. IF the white guys who were in power didn't pass the laws, blacks would have continued to die until they gained enough political power to change the laws themselves. Powerful whites were forced to make these changes because it was demanded of them. Because those rights were won, not bestowed. The only class of people to ever have rights bestowed upon them, were white men.

If you want to reduce BAC to that, then I think that just proves my point that you've gotten pretty nasty. Good luck with that.
 
From R.A.V. v. St. Paul. A case where the conviction of a juvenile was overturned because the act of burning the cross was not illegal, it was the intent behind burning the cross. Stuck down Minnesota's Bias Motivated Crimes act.

Although the phrase in the ordinance, "arouses anger, alarm or resentment in others," has been limited by the Minnesota Supreme Court's construction to reach only those symbols or displays that amount to "fighting words," the remaining, unmodified terms make clear that the ordinance applies only to "fighting words" that insult, or provoke violence, "on the basis of race, color, creed, religion or gender." Displays containing abusive invective, no matter how vicious or severe, are permissible unless they are addressed to one of the specified disfavored topics. Those who wish to use "fighting words" in connection with other ideas — to express hostility, for example, on the basis of political affiliation, union membership, or homosexuality — are not covered. The First Amendment does not permit St. Paul to impose special prohibitions on those speakers who express views on disfavored subjects.
 
Here's a college case.

In Hess v. Indiana, the Supreme Court clarified the distinction between speech that incites “imminent disorder” and speech that promotes an unlawful action in the indefinite future.

The case stemmed from an incident at Indiana University. It happened in May 1970, just a few days after the Kent State tragedy in nearby Ohio where four student protesters were killed, an event that triggered a wave of protests at more than 400 college campuses throughout the United States.

The Indiana protesters were being cleared from a street by the local police. One of the students – Gregory Hess – was walking away from the scene with a crowd of fellow protesters when he was overheard by a sheriff to say, “We’ll take the f***ing street later” (or “We’ll take the f***ing street again” – no really knows for sure).

Offended by the student’s choice of words, the sheriff promptly arrested Hess, who was convicted of violating the state’s disorderly conduct statute. Hess appealed the conviction on the grounds that the statute was unconstitutionally vague and overbroad, since it forbids speech that is protected under the First and Fourteenth amendments.

The Indiana Supreme Court had examined and rejected each of Hess’s constitutional arguments, but the U.S. Supreme Court took a close look at Hess’s statement and reached a different conclusion.

“The Indiana Supreme Court placed primary reliance on the trial court’s finding that Hess’ statement ‘was intended to incite further lawless action on the part of the crowd […] and was likely to produce such action,’” the majority opinion stated (94 S.Ct. 326).

“At best, however, the statement could be taken as counsel for present moderation; at worst, it amounted to nothing more than advocacy of illegal action at some indefinite future time. This is not sufficient to permit the State to punish Hess’ speech.”

The term “imminent lawless action” had appeared four years earlier in another Supreme Court case, 1969’s Brandenburg v. Ohio (89 S.Ct. 1827), which involved a group of Ku Klux Klan members who invited a local TV station to a rally where they brandished weapons and declared that they would “march on Congress.”

Taken together, Brandenburg and Hess mark a major turning point in free-speech doctrine, extending First Amendment protection to a class of previously unprotected speech that, while subversive, falls short of inciting unlawful behavior.
 
And colleges are still using speech codes, and there continue to be lawsuits and it's an ongoing battle. We will see where it ends up, if it ends at all. I believe that colleges have the right to restrict threatening speech, and I personally consider burning a cross to be threatening. Nothing will ever change my mind about that. I am not a fan of free speech absolutism, and doubt many women and minorities are. It tends to be a white male position, though of course there are exceptions. I also see a much thinner line between so called hate speech and incitement to violence than many white guys seem to.

That is my position.
 
Unless your sign says some one should kill this guy, then no, it would not meet the burden set in Brandenburg, which is Imminent lawless action. Of course you and Darla can go off somewhere and commiserate about how all us privileged white libertarian men are just part of the patriarchal oppressive society. But while you're there, you should remind her that the white males who set affirmative action into play ended up making white women the greatest single beneficiary of Affirmative Action.

Yeah, whatever, I was a libertarian before you were.

I was not advocating anything just making the point that the guy is pushing it. I would not be to sore at all if they took action against him.

But you would think it okay if I held a sign that read...

THIS GUY
DESERVES
TO DIE

I bet I could not get away with a sign that said something like that in relation to a public official outside their offices. Now how about if I go to a elementary school with a sign that says that the kids deserve to be victimized in some gruesome way? Do you think that would be okay?

Brandenburg does not apply fully. No one is suggesting that a law be passed against holding such a sign or expressing this sort of opinion.

If this were a private university there would be no valid libertarian argument for preventing the property owner from taking action. We might even press the property owner to act through torts for a failure to protect customers. When the state acts as a property owner it can be a little tricky but obviously it is expected to create certain limits when the behavior interferes too greatly with the business for which the property is intended. You can't go into a court house and get up on a soap box. AU has some right to act as a property owner and limit how the property is used. In this case the guy is advocating a criminal act on their property and against their clients.
 
Yeah, whatever, I was a libertarian before you were.

I was not advocating anything just making the point that the guy is pushing it. I would not be to sore at all if they took action against him.

But you would think it okay if I held a sign that read...

THIS GUY
DESERVES
TO DIE

I bet I could not get away with a sign that said something like that in relation to a public official outside their offices. Now how about if I go to a elementary school with a sign that says that the kids deserve to be victimized in some gruesome way? Do you think that would be okay?

Brandenburg does not apply fully. No one is suggesting that a law be passed against holding such a sign or expressing this sort of opinion.

If this were a private university there would be no valid libertarian argument for preventing the property owner from taking action. We might even press the property owner to act through torts for a failure to protect customers. When the state acts as a property owner it can be a little tricky but obviously it is expected to create certain limits when the behavior interferes too greatly with the business for which the property is intended. You can't go into a court house and get up on a soap box. AU has some right to act as a property owner and limit how the property is used. In this case the guy is advocating a criminal act on their property and against their clients.
First I will say you are correct. Were this a private university, they could allow whatever speech they wish, and disallow others. I guarantee that UofA wanted this guy gone, ran it past their legal office, and were told they could not remove him because of first amendment issues. Saying "this guy deserves to die" does not present imminent lawless action. It doesn't even convey a threat. "Kill this guy." much more likely to raise the ire of the school and get him arrested. I know that when I lived in Topeka, one of the churches that Fred et. al picketed was across from an elementary school and they picketed just as teh kids got out. There was nothing legal the city of Topeka could do. Kids left school seeing Fred's stick figures of men engaged in sodomy, signs that said "AIDS=Fag Death, etc.
 
Here's a college case.

In Hess v. Indiana, the Supreme Court clarified the distinction between speech that incites “imminent disorder” and speech that promotes an unlawful action in the indefinite future.

The case stemmed from an incident at Indiana University. It happened in May 1970, just a few days after the Kent State tragedy in nearby Ohio where four student protesters were killed, an event that triggered a wave of protests at more than 400 college campuses throughout the United States.

The Indiana protesters were being cleared from a street by the local police. One of the students – Gregory Hess – was walking away from the scene with a crowd of fellow protesters when he was overheard by a sheriff to say, “We’ll take the f***ing street later” (or “We’ll take the f***ing street again” – no really knows for sure).

Offended by the student’s choice of words, the sheriff promptly arrested Hess, who was convicted of violating the state’s disorderly conduct statute. Hess appealed the conviction on the grounds that the statute was unconstitutionally vague and overbroad, since it forbids speech that is protected under the First and Fourteenth amendments.

The Indiana Supreme Court had examined and rejected each of Hess’s constitutional arguments, but the U.S. Supreme Court took a close look at Hess’s statement and reached a different conclusion.

“The Indiana Supreme Court placed primary reliance on the trial court’s finding that Hess’ statement ‘was intended to incite further lawless action on the part of the crowd […] and was likely to produce such action,’” the majority opinion stated (94 S.Ct. 326).

“At best, however, the statement could be taken as counsel for present moderation; at worst, it amounted to nothing more than advocacy of illegal action at some indefinite future time. This is not sufficient to permit the State to punish Hess’ speech.”

The term “imminent lawless action” had appeared four years earlier in another Supreme Court case, 1969’s Brandenburg v. Ohio (89 S.Ct. 1827), which involved a group of Ku Klux Klan members who invited a local TV station to a rally where they brandished weapons and declared that they would “march on Congress.”

Taken together, Brandenburg and Hess mark a major turning point in free-speech doctrine, extending First Amendment protection to a class of previously unprotected speech that, while subversive, falls short of inciting unlawful behavior.

It still does not apply fully and the fact that it happened on a college campus does not make it any more applicable. It was not the college that took action but the state. That's why the case is Hess vs Indiana and not Hess vs Indiana University. In both cases you cited the person was arrested and charged with a crime. That has not been suggested.
 
Indiana State University IS the state of Indiana. Had it been against the arresting agency, the county would have been sued as it was a SHERIFF that arrested him. Regardless of who arrested him he was going to be tried in state court.
 
First I will say you are correct. Were this a private university, they could allow whatever speech they wish, and disallow others. I guarantee that UofA wanted this guy gone, ran it past their legal office, and were told they could not remove him because of first amendment issues. Saying "this guy deserves to die" does not present imminent lawless action. It doesn't even convey a threat. "Kill this guy." much more likely to raise the ire of the school and get him arrested. I know that when I lived in Topeka, one of the churches that Fred et. al picketed was across from an elementary school and they picketed just as teh kids got out. There was nothing legal the city of Topeka could do. Kids left school seeing Fred's stick figures of men engaged in sodomy, signs that said "AIDS=Fag Death, etc.

They did not conduct their protest on school property. Even if they had a legal right to be there they would not be allowed to argue that the children deserved to be victims of crime.
 
Indiana State University IS the state of Indiana. Had it been against the arresting agency, the county would have been sued as it was a SHERIFF that arrested him. Regardless of who arrested him he was going to be tried in state court.

You are wrong. He was arrested for violating a state law. His suit was against the state not the university.
 
Give it a rest. One person holding a sign like that does not create a pro-rape atmosphere any more than allowing anti-war protesters creates a pacifist atmosphere. You are another that has proven that freedom for you is subjective, if you are offended by something or don't agree then it shouldn't be protected by the first amendment. The ACLU has defended Neo-Nazis and KKK members right to free speech. Do you think that means they agree or want to promote a pro-racist atmosphere. You think that because you are a woman you can make stupid comments like that and no one will call you on it.

Yes, she does believe it. :palm:
 
You are wrong. He was arrested for violating a state law. His suit was against the state not the university.
It was a sheriff interpreting state law on University Property. No matter what happened he was going to be tried under Indiana law, but youre right, it was against the state because that was the entity who prosecuted him.
 
It was a sheriff interpreting state law on University Property. No matter what happened he was going to be tried under Indiana law, but youre right, it was against the state because that was the entity who prosecuted him.

But that is my point. No one is suggesting that he be charged with a crime or tried. The university can take other actions against him and may have a right to do so without violating his speech rights. I am not sure what precedent exists for that but the cases you mentioned do not fully apply.
 
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