APP - An Incoherent Truth

Southern Man said:
Semantics. It doesn't matter, seizure or not. The government still took over the means of production, which means socialism. *shrug*
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Apparently you don't know what socialism is.

Socialism - a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

A private company selling it's controlling interest of it's company to the government with out coercion from the government to do so clearly does not meet this definition.
 
Watermark said:
And the main interest in buying up that much company stock is not to control it; they want to sell the stock off as soon as possible.
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That's not really relevant. That should be under a discussion of "Is this an appropriate service of government?". The government purchased the ownership interest in GM and thus we, the tax payers, have property rights.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Apparently you don't know what socialism is.

Socialism - a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

A private company selling it's controlling interest of it's company to the government with out coercion from the government to do so clearly does not meet this definition.
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Socialism does not necessarily involve force. When Mexico nationalized their oil industry, they paid for the oil companies.

This is not socialism because the government doesn't have an intent on running this company; it merely thinks it being there in the future is important for our economy.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Apparently you don't know what socialism is.

Socialism - a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

A private company selling it's controlling interest of it's company to the government with out coercion from the government to do so clearly does not meet this definition.
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The government's on its way to socialism. Duh.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
No it is not. It's ownership via a purchase which means those whom make the purchase have property rights. You are implying that we, the tax payers, do not have property rights. It is you, who are advocating socialism of the authoritarian kind.
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The government taxes the People and then uses that money to take control of a private corporation: socialism. *shrug*
 
Southern Man said:
The government's on its way to socialism. Duh.
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Our government has always used socialism to solve big problems when appropriate. Would you rather have our socialist military that we presently have or would you rather have our nation defended by mercenaries? There is a time and a place for public/private partnerships in our society to solve problem and knee jerk opposition is just plain silly.
 
Southern Man said:
You seem to forget that the Democrats are near passing the takeover of 1/6th of the American economy with universal health care.
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Every advanced country has UHC, apart from the US, but then you have always ploughed your own furrow. I have never been able to understand how you have a World Series for baseball yet no other countries compete, why is that?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Our government has always used socialism to solve big problems when appropriate. Would you rather have our socialist military that we presently have or would you rather have our nation defended by mercenaries? There is a time and a place for public/private partnerships in our society to solve problem and knee jerk opposition is just plain silly.
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Our military has traditionally been supplied by privately owned corporations. That's why American weapons systems are coveted the world over.
 
tom prendergast said:
Every advanced country has UHC, apart from the US, but then you have always ploughed your own furrow. I have never been able to understand how you have a World Series for baseball yet no other countries compete, why is that?
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No country is as advanced as the US. You Europeans offer no valid comparison.
 
Southern Man said:
No patient is ever denied heath care in the US due to inability to pay. The poorest have Medicade.
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Yet around 60% of poor Americans are not covered by Medicaid.

Medicaid is the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States"]United States[/ame] [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_health_care_system"]health[/ame] program for eligible individuals and families with low incomes and resources. It is a means-tested program that is jointly funded by the states and federal government, and is managed by the states.[1] Among the groups of people served by Medicaid are certain eligible U.S. citizens and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resident_aliens"]resident aliens[/ame], including low-income adults and their children, and people with certain disabilities. Poverty alone does not necessarily qualify an individual for Medicaid.[2] It is estimated that approximately 60 percent of poor Americans are not covered by Medicaid.[3] Medicaid is the largest source of funding for medical and health-related services for people with limited income in the United States. Because of the aging [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Boomer"]Baby Boomer[/ame] population, the fastest growing aspect of Medicaid is [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_home"]nursing home[/ame] coverage.


[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid[/ame]


 
tom prendergast said:
Therein lies the problem, a truly advanced country, in my opinion, is judged by how it treats its poorest citizens.
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And the poorest are treated well here, it's the lower middle class that get the shaft in health care. We have programs that get the poorest covered, it's the tier between the poor and the middle-middle class that tend to be in the numbers that cannot afford insurance.
 
Damocles said:
Again, poverty will net you coverage here. Even most of the sites that talk about US health care problems admit to that one. It isn't the poor that aren't covered.
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He'll have to adjust his hate monitor ever so slightly to the left.

A little more to the left...oops... down a little...there you go!

"Well the true measure of a country is how well they treat their middle class folks".
 
Southern Man said:
Our military has traditionally been supplied by privately owned corporations. That's why American weapons systems are coveted the world over.
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Don't change the subject. It's irrelevant. The US military, is the second largest socialist institution in our nation. You don't get to cherry pick what is and is not socialism. According to you the tax payer purchase of GM is socialism but GM is supplied by privately owned corporations too.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Don't change the subject. It's irrelevant. The US military, is the second largest socialist institution in our nation. You don't get to cherry pick what is and is not socialism. According to you the tax payer purchase of GM is socialism but GM is supplied by privately owned corporations too.
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I'm not changing the subject. You claimed that the US military is a socialist organization and I just proved to you that its not, and is superior to foreign militaries who are. *shrug*
 
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