Archaeology of the New Testament

Melchizedek=Tecumseh said:
Symbolism ! "This is my Body this is my Blood" ,Jesus words at his last Passover Seder!
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but the passover teaching does not say the wine is jesus's blood.

that's something Jesus said one time on a particular Passover.

passover is a jewish holiday.

sorry the truth stings.

at least you gave up on the blood of the lamb garbage.

nobody suggested jesus blood be smeared anywhere.

Jesus is not a lamb.

that was in egypt. Jesus was not even born yet.
 
Melchizedek=Tecumseh said:
I'm explaining Job titles !View attachment 81876
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Who is the "I" being referred to below?

Exodus:

12 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. 3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb[a] for his family, one for each household. 4 If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat. 5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or boiled in water, but roast it over a fire—with the head, legs and internal organs. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. 11 This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the Lord’s Passover.

12 “On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord. 13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
 
ZenMode said:
Who is the "I" being referred to below?

Exodus:

12 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. 3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb[a] for his family, one for each household. 4 If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat. 5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or boiled in water, but roast it over a fire—with the head, legs and internal organs. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. 11 This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the Lord’s Passover.

12 “On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord. 13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
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nothing about jesus in there.

just a bunch a weird shit.

in fact its offensive to say Jesus is lambs blood.
 
Ichabod Stain said:
but the passover teaching does not say the wine is jesus's blood.

that's something Jesus said one time on a particular Passover.

passover is a jewish holiday.

sorry the truth stings.

at least you gave up on the blood of the lamb garbage.

nobody suggested jesus blood be smeared anywhere.

Jesus is not a lamb.

that was in egypt. Jesus was not even born yet.
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Jesus said it!
 
ZenMode said:
Who is the "I" being referred to below?

Exodus:

12 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. 3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb[a] for his family, one for each household. 4 If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat. 5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or boiled in water, but roast it over a fire—with the head, legs and internal organs. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. 11 This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the Lord’s Passover.

12 “On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord. 13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
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Your answer is in Exodus 12:23!
ZenMode said:
Who is the "I" being referred to below?

Exodus:

12 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. 3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb[a] for his family, one for each household. 4 If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat. 5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or boiled in water, but roast it over a fire—with the head, legs and internal organs. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. 11 This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the Lord’s Passover.

12 “On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord. 13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
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NASB_Exodus_12-23.jpg192512400.jpg
 
Melchizedek=Tecumseh said:
Your answer is in Exodus 12:23!
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Nope. My answer is literally in the exact verse that I pasted. You are intentionally lying to yourself.

On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord.
 
Into the Night said:
Redefinition fallacy. Buzzword fallacy. Denial of logic. Denial of conditional.
History is not a 'standard'. It is not a 'rigor'.
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Yes, it is. The word "history" is not about events, it is about the discipline of documentation. It is an exact parallel to Intelligence gathering.

Everything prior to the first documentation is pre-historic. It's all about documentation and not a synonym for the past tense.

Beyond your misunderstanding of the word "history", you get everything else right. You understand that your beliefs are a matter of faith, that you don't need any particular documents to have faith, that it doesn't matter how many people question whether certain events really happened, ... all that matters is that you believe what you believe.

When someone says "Jesus was not an historical figure", all that is saying is that we simply don't have the necessary documentation to qualify Jesus as an historical figure. I see that you are locked in on interpreting this as "the account of Jesus simply did not happen" but that is a mistaken interpretation.

History is a discipline. Organizations have historians, and they are required to follow the rigorous documentation standards of the discipline.
 
IBDaMann said:
Yes, it is. The word "history" is not about events, it is about the discipline of documentation. It is an exact parallel to Intelligence gathering.

Everything prior to the first documentation is pre-historic. It's all about documentation and not a synonym for the past tense.

Beyond your misunderstanding of the word "history", you get everything else right. You understand that your beliefs are a matter of faith, that you don't need any particular documents to have faith, that it doesn't matter how many people question whether certain events really happened, ... all that matters is that you believe what you believe.

When someone says "Jesus was not an historical figure", all that is saying is that we simply don't have the necessary documentation to qualify Jesus as an historical figure. I see that you are locked in on interpreting this as "the account of Jesus simply did not happen" but that is a mistaken interpretation.

History is a discipline. Organizations have historians, and they are required to follow the rigorous documentation standards of the discipline.
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This comment mixes a kernel of truth about the discipline of history with several incorrect or misleading claims about what “history” means and how historians work.

1) “History is not about events, it is about documentation”​

❌ Incorrect (false dichotomy)​

  • History is both:
    • the past events themselves
    • and the academic discipline that studies and interprets those events
In everyday and academic usage:

  • “History” can mean what happened (“the history of Rome”)
  • Or the study of what happened (the field of history)
So it’s wrong to say it is only about documentation.

2) “Everything prior to documentation is prehistoric”​

⚠️ Oversimplified / partly misleading​

  • In strict academic terms, “prehistory” usually refers to periods before written records
  • But historians still study those periods using:
    • archaeology
    • oral traditions
    • material evidence
So:

  • Lack of written documentation ≠ “we know nothing”
  • Prehistory is still part of history as a field of study

3) “History is an exact parallel to intelligence gathering”​

❌ Incorrect analogy​

While both involve evidence:

  • Intelligence work is often secret, real-time, and strategic
  • History is retrospective, interpretive, and publicly scrutinized
Historians:

  • Evaluate sources critically
  • Compare multiple types of evidence
  • Revise conclusions over time
So it’s not an “exact parallel”

4) “When someone says ‘Jesus was not a historical figure,’ it just means there’s insufficient documentation”​

❌ Misleading / inaccurate​

In actual scholarly usage:

  • Saying someone is “not a historical figure” typically means:
    • historians believe there is insufficient reliable evidence that the person existed
That is not just about missing paperwork—it’s about:

  • quality of sources
  • independence of sources
  • proximity to the events
Regarding Jesus Christ specifically:

  • The majority of historians (including many non-religious scholars) agree he likely existed
  • This is based on:
    • early texts (e.g., the Gospels)
    • references from non-Christian writers like Tacitus and Josephus
So the claim misrepresents both:

  • what historians mean by “historical figure”
  • and the actual scholarly consensus on Jesus

5) “History requires strict documentation standards”​

⚠️ Partly true but overstated​

Historians do use rigorous methods, including:

  • source criticism
  • cross-referencing
  • evaluating bias and reliability
But:

  • History is not limited to formal documents
  • It includes:
    • inscriptions
    • artifacts
    • oral histories
    • environmental evidence
So “documentation” is broader than the comment implies.

6) “Beliefs without documents are just faith”​

⚠️ Philosophical opinion, not a factual claim​

This is a rhetorical framing, not a factual statement about history.

Historians:

  • Often work with incomplete evidence
  • Make probabilistic conclusions, not absolute certainties
That’s not the same as “faith”—it’s evidence-based inference.

Bottom line​

  • ❌ Incorrect: “History is only about documentation”
  • ❌ Misleading: definition of “historical figure”
  • ❌ Weak analogy: intelligence vs history
  • ⚠️ Oversimplified: prehistory and evidence
  • ✔️ Partly true: historians use rigorous methods—but not limited to documents
Overall, the comment redefines terms in a narrow way to support a philosophical argument, rather than reflecting how history is actually practiced.
 
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