Are Americans dumb?

I think we all have a good idea and can explain how airplanes fly......whats your point ?

We all saw with our eyes the airplanes fly into the WTC....and thousands of people in the streets of NY saw this terrorists act first hand and in color....

Do you think Bush and Cheney climbed into the bowels of the WTC and set up an controlled explosion of both buildings and of course Build. 7.....then for
some reason set it all in motion for fun....
I don't know how you explain the 19 Muslims on the planes and the attack on the Pentagon.....
Then you gotta believe that Bush and Cheney are the shrewdest men in the world to pull it off or that hundreds of others involved in the conspiracy are
so damn good at keeping secrets, even Obama can't figure it out....

:0)

You may have a problem with science .. I don't. The fairy-tale of 9/11 is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE. But you are free to believe whatever makes you feel cozy.

Science determines that the only way giant buildings can collapse symetrically into their own footprints is through implosion. I defy you to challenge that .. and you won't find anything in the history of fire, buildings, or Man to support that they can.

The Law of Falling Objects determines that falling mass that encounters equal or greater mass always slows down. Yet the evil wizards changed that three times on the same day, 9/11.

I could go on .. but it will all boil down to one thing .. you believe whatever you were told on 9/11 and I don't .. and I have science on my side.
 
:0)

You may have a problem with science .. I don't. The fairy-tale of 9/11 is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE. But you are free to believe whatever makes you feel cozy.

Science determines that the only way giant buildings can collapse symetrically into their own footprints is through implosion. I defy you to challenge that .. and you won't find anything in the history of fire, buildings, or Man to support that they can.

The Law of Falling Objects determines that falling mass that encounters equal or greater mass always slows down. Yet the evil wizards changed that three times on the same day, 9/11.

I could go on .. but it will all boil down to one thing .. you believe whatever you were told on 9/11 and I don't .. and I have science on my side.


I don't have to 'challenge it'.....I saw it happen with my own eyes.....twice.

implosion is so utterly foolish and an impossible possibility its ridiculous on its face....for all the reasons I already stated and dozens more I didn't mention.
 
I can see the plot now.....Bush gets sworn in Jan. 2001 .....gets the WTC all wired as per plans made the week before.....
then invites 19 Arabs to enter the country, go to flight training, high-jack the planes and fly them into the buildings.....in Sept.
THEN, at the night moment, Bush presses his remote control and boom,,,,down comes the giants.....leaving no telltale evidence.

and now I forget the reason for all this.....what was it.....?...to invade Iraq ?.....

you gotta be mad.....


Do you notice, not even one of your fellow lefties, wanna help you on this one....
 
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I don't have to 'challenge it'.....I saw it happen with my own eyes.....twice.

implosion is so utterly foolish and an impossible possibility its ridiculous on its face....for all the reasons I already stated and dozens more I didn't mention.

:0) I know that it must hurt. Truth is often painful.

Implosion is the ONLY sane possibility. Still waiting on you to demonstrate ANY possibility otherwise. Weakened or damaged buildings always fall to the damaged side. They do not uniformly collapse into their own footprints. That is IMPOSSIBLE. They do not collapse at near free-fall speed. That is IMPOSSIBLE.

Now, ignoring a few IMPOSSIBILITIES :0) your fairy-tale might have merit .. except for the other IMPOSSIBILITIES attached to the fairy-tale.

As I've said, not trying to think for you brother .. and I recognize the power of cognitive dissonance.

You'll notice that I have not even mentioned the name Bush. I know how terrorist cells work.

I'm merely speaking to the science and the depths of American lemming-hood.
 
I can see the plot now.....Bush gets sworn in Jan. 2001 .....gets the WTC all wired as per plans made the week before.....
then invites 19 Arabs to enter the country, go to flight training, high-jack the planes and fly them into the buildings.....in Sept.
THEN, at the night moment, Bush presses his remote control and boom,,,,down comes the giants.....leaving no telltale evidence.

and now I forget the reason for all this.....what was it.....?...to invade Iraq ?.....

you gotta be mad.....


Do you notice, not even one of your fellow lefties, wanna help you on this one....

Have you ever noticed that I don't need help?

Have you noticed that I have not even slightly intimated that this is a right-wing thing?

What you don't recognize is how silly the plot of the fairy-tale is. 19 hijackers enter the country .. which is KNOWN to the FBI. In fact, two of them LIVE with an FBI informer.

They take flight lessons to fly planes .. KNOWN to the FBI.

They are so bad at it that they couldn't even rent a Cessna to fly on their own .. but soon after these "pilots" climb behind the cockpis of giant planes and fly them all across the most protected airspace on planet earth with their tracks covered by 5 wargames that just happened to be happening on the same day. :0)

It gets stupider.

These same "pilots" who couldn't rent a Cessna then fly giant planes better than combat pilots could fly them (Lt. Col Robert Bowman)

One of them flies a plane so close to the ground at the Pentagon that the ground effect had to be off the chain .. especially for an inexperienced "pilot."

:0) I could go on with the funny tale, but what would be the point?

I'm cool with whatever you believe.
 
Have you ever noticed that I don't need help?

Have you noticed that I have not even slightly intimated that this is a right-wing thing?

What you don't recognize is how silly the plot of the fairy-tale is. 19 hijackers enter the country .. which is KNOWN to the FBI. In fact, two of them LIVE with an FBI informer.

They take flight lessons to fly planes .. KNOWN to the FBI.

They are so bad at it that they couldn't even rent a Cessna to fly on their own .. but soon after these "pilots" climb behind the cockpis of giant planes and fly them all across the most protected airspace on planet earth with their tracks covered by 5 wargames that just happened to be happening on the same day. :0)

It gets stupider.

These same "pilots" who couldn't rent a Cessna then fly giant planes better than combat pilots could fly them (Lt. Col Robert Bowman)


One of them flies a plane so close to the ground at the Pentagon that the ground effect had to be off the chain .. especially for an inexperienced "pilot."

:0) I could go on with the funny tale, but what would be the point?

I'm cool with whatever you believe.


These same "pilots" who couldn't rent a Cessna then fly giant planes better than combat pilots could fly them ?


They couldn't rent a Cessna because they WEREN'T LICENSED PILOTS....nothing spactacular about that fact....

Fly like combat pilots......I can personally tell you that is bullshit,...

Ever take a flight lesson or two?.....you will fly that plane 20 seconds after it leaves the ground, with no instruction at all except what the instructor to your right is telling you to do, real time........
Steering a plane thats already in the air is childs play......big or small......prop or jet.....you're not doing acrobatics....you're not taking off and you're not landing

You're not screwing around with engines, flaps, etc.....you're driving, the planes flies with or without you.....

There was nothing astonishing about the terrorists in the cockpit, nothing at all......

The Pentagon plane wasn't flying close to the ground....its was crashing, crashing into a wall, give the "pilot" kudos for good aim....


AND, none of your post deals with the crazy idea that Bush and Company wired the WTC with explosives....thats nuts.
 
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These same "pilots" who couldn't rent a Cessna then fly giant planes better than combat pilots could fly them ?


They couldn't rent a Cessna because they WEREN'T LICENSED PILOTS....nothing spactacular about that fact....

Fly like combat pilots......I can personally tell you that is bullshit,...

Ever take a flight lesson or two?.....you will fly that plane 20 seconds after it leaves the ground, with no instruction at all except what the instructor to your right is telling you to do, real time........
Steering a plane thats already in the air is childs play......big or small......prop or jet.....you're not doing acrobatics....you're not taking off and you're not landing

You're not screwing around with engines, flaps, etc.....you're driving, the planes flies with or without you.....

There was nothing astonishing about the terrorists in the cockpit, nothing at all......

The Pentagon plane wasn't flying close to the ground....its was crashing, crashing into a wall, give the "pilot" kudos for good aim....


AND, none of your post deals with the crazy idea that Bush and Company wired the WTC with explosives....thats nuts.

Obviously you haven't researched anything. It's your notion of patriotism talking, not an educated study of what happened.

They couldn't rent the Cessna, not because they weren't licensed .. but because they didn't know how to fly it. They failed as pilots.

The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training

excerpts --

There are some who maintain that the mythical 9/11 hijackers, although proven to be too incompetent to fly a little Cessna 172, had acquired the impressive skills that enabled them to fly airliners by training in flight simulators.

---

A common misconception non-pilots have about simulators is how “easy” it is to operate them. They are indeed relatively easy to operate if the objective is to make a few lazy turns and frolic about in the “open sky”. But if the intent is to execute any kind of a maneuver with even the least bit of precision, the task immediately becomes quite daunting. And if the aim is to navigate to a specific geographic location hundreds of miles away while flying at over 500 MPH, 30,000 feet above the ground the challenges become virtually impossible for an untrained pilot.

And this, precisely, is what the four hijacker pilots who could not fly a Cessna around an airport by themselves are alleged to have accomplished in multi-ton, high-speed commercial jets on 9/11.

For a person not conversant with the practical complexities of pilotage, a modern flight simulator could present a terribly confusing and disorienting experience. These complex training devices are not even remotely similar to the video games one sees in amusement arcades, or even the software versions available for home computers.

In order to operate a modern flight simulator with any level of skill, one has to not only be a decent pilot to begin with, but also a skilled instrument-rated one to boot — and be thoroughly familiar with the actual aircraft type the simulator represents, since the cockpit layouts vary between aircraft.

The only flight domains where an arcade/PC-type game would even begin to approach the degree of visual realism of a modern professional flight simulator would be during the take-off and landing phases. During these phases, of course, one clearly sees the bright runway lights stretched out ahead, and even peripherally sees images of buildings, etc. moving past. Take-offs—even landings, to a certain degree—are relatively “easy”, because the pilot has visual reference cues that exist “outside” the cockpit.

But once you’ve rotated, climbed out, and reached cruising altitude in a simulator (or real airplane), and find yourself en route to some distant destination (using sophisticated electronic navigation techniques), the situation changes drastically: the pilot loses virtually all external visual reference cues, and is left entirely at the mercy of an array of complex flight and navigation instruments to provide situational cues (altitude, heading, speed, attitude, etc.)

In the case of a Boeing 757 or 767, the pilot would be faced with an EFIS (Electronic Flight Instrumentation System) panel comprised of six large multi-mode LCDs interspersed with clusters of assorted “hard” instruments. These displays process the raw aircraft system and flight data into an integrated picture of the aircraft situation, position and progress, not only in horizontal and vertical dimensions, but also with regard to time and speed as well. When flying “blind”, I.e., with no ground reference cues, it takes a highly skilled pilot to interpret, and then apply, this data intelligently. If one cannot translate this information quickly, precisely and accurately (and it takes an instrument-rated pilot to do so), one would have ZERO SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. I.e., the pilot wouldn’t have a clue where s/he was in relation to the earth. Flight under such conditions is referred to as “IFR”, or Instrument Flight Rules.

---

Let me place this in the context of the 9/11 hijacker-pilots. These men were repeatedly deemed incompetent to solo a simple Cessna-172 — an elementary exercise that involves flying this little trainer once around the patch on a sunny day. A student’s first solo flight involves a simple circuit: take-off, followed by four gentle left turns ending with a landing back on the runway. This is as basic as flying can possibly get.

Not one of the hijackers was deemed fit to perform this most elementary exercise by himself.

In fact, here’s what their flight instructors had to say about the aptitude of these budding aviators:

Mohammed Atta: “His attention span was zero.”
http://www.willthomas.net/911/911_Commission_Hearing.htm

Khalid Al-Mihdhar: “We didn’t kick him out, but he didn’t live up to our standards.”
http://100777.com/node/237

Marwan Al-Shehhi: “He was dropped because of his limited English and incompetence at the controls.”
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics and History/9-11/9-11_hijackers_still_alive.htm

Salem Al-Hazmi: “We advised him to quit after two lessons.”
http://www.willthomas.net/Books_Videos/911_Investigations_Stand_Down.htm

Hani Hanjour: “His English was horrible, and his mechanical skills were even worse. It was like he had hardly even ever driven a car. I’m still to this day amazed that he could have flown into the Pentagon. He could not fly at all.”
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hanjour.html

more at link
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/bl...bility-flying-heavy-aircraft-without-training

You can believe whatever you want.
 
I don't have names .. but the specifics are called SCIENCE.

There is no science that supports the fairy-tale of 9/11.

Given the fairy-tale, I would be looking for Harry Potter or some evil wizards to be behind the tragedy .. given that the culprits would have to have the ability to bend science and make steel-frame structures fall straight down uniformly from fire .. which of course is scientifically impossible.

They would have to be able to make falling objects actually speed up when encountering equal or greater mass instead of slowing down as dictated by science and the Law of Falling Objects/Bodies.

Either evil wizards did 9/11 .. or what Americans have been told is every bit the lie that it appears to science to be.

"If this government had done nothing but allow normal procedures to happen, the towers would still be standing in New York and thousands of Americans would still be alive." -- Lt. Col, Robert Bowman, USAF ret. Former Director of the Star Wars program, decorated combat pilot with over 100 combat missons flown. Ph.D in Nuclear Engineering and Aeronautics, served as the Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology.

You think he might have a good idea of how airplanes fly?

ALL-RIGHTY-THEN
<backing slowly away>
<making sure I don't make eye contact>
<speaking in low tones>
<making no movement that could be seen as aggressive>
 
I don't have names .. but the specifics are called SCIENCE.

There is no science that supports the fairy-tale of 9/11.

Given the fairy-tale, I would be looking for Harry Potter or some evil wizards to be behind the tragedy .. given that the culprits would have to have the ability to bend science and make steel-frame structures fall straight down uniformly from fire .. which of course is scientifically impossible.

They would have to be able to make falling objects actually speed up when encountering equal or greater mass instead of slowing down as dictated by science and the Law of Falling Objects/Bodies.

Either evil wizards did 9/11 .. or what Americans have been told is every bit the lie that it appears to science to be.

"If this government had done nothing but allow normal procedures to happen, the towers would still be standing in New York and thousands of Americans would still be alive." -- Lt. Col, Robert Bowman, USAF ret. Former Director of the Star Wars program, decorated combat pilot with over 100 combat missons flown. Ph.D in Nuclear Engineering and Aeronautics, served as the Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology.

You think he might have a good idea of how airplanes fly?

So you don't have a defined "they" it is a general "they" and misconstrued questions we've already thoroughly debunked in another thread long ago. I get ya...

It's all good. Just blame "they" and some people believe you, especially if your questions are difficult for most people to understand the answers to.

Next time you ever ask for something more than "they" I'll have to bring this up.
 
To me, this was one of the most hilarious reads I've had in a while. Let's break it down for those of you who don't have the time to bother reading the whole thing. It starts with the liberal supposition that the voters are just getting dumber. Never mind that we apparently gained 'smartness' long enough to elect Obama and give Democrats control of the Senate, since then, we have gotten dumber and dumber. And it's not our fault, really! We have our lives to live, and we can't bother with staying up to the minute on every detail... so we naturally get dumber. Now, the Internet should help with this, what with information on virtually any topic now available 24/7 at your fingertips... but alas, it doesn't. You see, we are so stupid, we only look up things on the Internet we are interested in, and we don't read the views of people we don't agree with. Therefore, we remain perpetually mired in our own ignorance.

Furthermore, television doesn't help these days, as the TV news is now presented from a left or right perspective, and we are too stupid to seek other sources and assume our TV news is unbiased, because that's what we had always been accustomed to before Fox News. Now what happens, is dumb people watch Fox News and get dumber, but they never realize that's what they are doing... They think, because they are watching "the news" they are getting smarter, but "studies find" this isn't true. It actually perpetuates the dumbness, and makes people become stupider over time....they've done studies and stuff, man!

So, what do you suppose the point of all this is? Are they just starting to try and explain why their political clocks are about to be cleaned? You'll recall, when Bush was garnering record-setting unprecedented vote tallies, that became their 'line of the moment' for a while... people were just stupid and dumb, and the liberals just hadn't spoken to them on their level of intellectual understanding or something. Maybe they are living in denial, and actually convince themselves that the rest of us are just dumb people, who don't get it? Or... could they be angling for the next great Liberal stroke of brilliance... governmental monitoring of our information intake, to insure all views are appropriately represented on all things?


...excuse me, I am going to go read 1984 again.
 
So you don't have a defined "they" it is a general "they" and misconstrued questions we've already thoroughly debunked in another thread long ago. I get ya...

It's all good. Just blame "they" and some people believe you, especially if your questions are difficult for most people to understand the answers to.

Next time you ever ask for something more than "they" I'll have to bring this up.

What would the motive be for such a cover-up? The war in Iraq? They had the WMD lie to cover that. Make Americans more frightened and easier to govern? Schools and TV do that. Real Estate profit? There are far easier ways to make money.
So what was the motive? Find the motive, find the killer!
 
US alert fighter pilots and their air weapons controllers do their jobs quite well, thank you very much, BAC.

There is a fascinating story that Robert Bowman tells starting at 5:00, does that sound likely to you? I must say the guy comes across as incredibly lucid and knowledgeable, I wonder what he thinks today?

 
There are a lot of questions all the same about why those planes were not intercepted, unless you know different?

This will help you with those questions ..

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/norad/

Was there a change in the SOP regarding the chain of command for NORAD response to hijacked planes?

Yes, there was.

When was this change ordered?

It was changed on June 1, 2001 .. 3 months before the attack on 9/11.

What was changed?

CJCSI 3610.01, dated July 31, 1997, required that all requests for assistance in hijackings be approved by the Secretary of Defense. An update to that order, CJCSI 3610.01, dated June 1, 2001, had an exception for emergencies that would seem to give commanders in the field autonomy in ordering intercepts. However, that exception did not cover requests for "potentially lethal assistance", the kind required to respond to the attack:

(DODD 2025.15, Feb. 18, 1997) 4.4 The Secretary of Defense retains approval authority for support to civil authorities involving: use of Commander in Chief (CINC)-assigned forces (personnel units, and equipment) when required under paragraph 4.5, below; DoD support that will result in a planned event with the potential for confrontation with specifically identified individuals and/or groups or will result in the use of lethal force. 1

There are legitimate questions ..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3008938805735782363#
 
One of my cousins is an ATC at Heathrow, it is a very stressful job.

I imagine that it is. It's not a job that I would aspire to do.

NO ONE accusses the ATC of doing anything they should not have done.

Payne Stewart's plane was intercepted by fighter jets just minutes after it lost contact with the ATC.

These hijacked planes floated in the air for more than an hour.

These are legitimate questions.
 
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