Are the Dead From the Minneapolis Bridge Collapse Victims of Conservative Ideology?

C

Cypress

Will work for Scooby snacks
The title of the article is kinda harsh. Its not my title. But money doesn't grow on trees. You have to actually PAY for infrastrucure improvements. If one's priority is simply cutting taxes to starve govenment of revenue, public infrastructure is going to suffer.


Are the Dead From the Minneapolis Bridge Collapse Victims of Conservative Ideology?

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted August 3, 2007.

After swallowing 30 years of small-government rhetoric, our infrastructure, once the pride of the developed world, is falling apart around us. We're reaping what we've sown.

The tragic collapse this week of a stretch of I-35 spanning the Mississippi river in Minnesota was shocking but should come as no surprise. America's core infrastrucure has been falling apart in very visible ways during the past few years. It's a predictable outcome of the rise of "backlash" conservatism; we've swallowed 30 years of small-government rhetoric, and it's led us to a point in which our infrastructure, once the pride of the developed world, is falling apart around us. We're reaping what we've sown.

Minnesota's Republican governor, Tim Pawlenty, reacted to the disaster by calling a press conference and, with a steely determination worthy of Rudy Guiliani, lying to the American people. Pawlenty insisted that inspections in 2005 and 2006 had found no structural problems with the bridge. But the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported that the bridge "was rated as 'structurally deficient' two years ago and possibly in need of replacement." The bridge was borderline -- with a 50 sufficiency rating; if a bridge scores less than 50, it needs to be replaced.

According to the Pioneer Press, the bridge's suspension system was supposed to receive extra attention with inspections every two years, but the last one had been performed in 2003.

The governor had every reason to obfuscate; in 2005, he vetoed a bipartisan transportation package that would have "put more than $8 billion into highways, city and county roads, and transit over the next decade." At the time, he was applauded by many Republicans for his staunch fiscal "conservatism."

It's too soon to say for sure what caused this latest disaster, but as Stephen Flynn wrote in Popular Mechanics, when all is said and done, "investigators will likely find that two factors contributed to its failure: age and heavy use." Those conditions are anything but isolated:

According to a report card released in 2005 by the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE), 160,570 bridges, or just over one-quarter of the nation's 590,750 bridge inventory, were rated structurally deficient or functionally obsolete. The nation's bridges are being called upon to serve a population that has grown from 200 million to over 300 million since the time the first vehicles rolled across the I-35W bridge. Predictably that has translated into lots more cars.
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It was the second U.S. bridge collapse this week -- a span in California fell the day before, with far fewer injuries and no loss of life. The tragedy occurred just weeks after an 80-year-old steam pipe in Manhattan blew up, killing one and injuring dozens more. A year earlier, a section of tunnel in Boston collapsed, killing a woman as she drove home. A year before that, hundreds of thousands of Americans became refugees after New Orleans' pitiable levees collapsed -- a graphic illustration of shortsighted public policy if ever there was one. The AFL-CIO estimates that more than one in four roads are in "less than good condition." Minnesota ranks low on their list, with about one in eight failing to make the grade.

It's all part of a larger picture. We have a crumbling power grid and are falling behind the rest of the world in broadband infrastructure. The American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) talks of "congested highways, overflowing sewers and corroding bridges" that are "constant reminders of the looming crisis that jeopardizes our nation's prosperity and our quality of life." Every year the engineering society issues a report card grading 15 categories of America's once-premier infrastructure. In 2005, that "core" infrastructure collectively got a "D-," slightly worse than the "D" it received in 2000. Ironically, the nation's bridges received the highest score -- a "C" -- in 2005.

continued

alternet.org
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Blame Americans though. They swallowed it. And this is where it got us. They might call it a bargain, I call it criminal stupidity.
 
right Darla, we as a nation bought off on it and embraced it. We are all to blame. At least those of us who voted republican.
 
Ok, I have to say that I am tired of hearing the bashing of 'conservatives' going when it comes to this incident. You can thank Ike (a conservative) for the Federal Highway System. Conservatives believe the infrastructure of our roads is one of the important issues that government SHOULD take care of. Occasioanlly, you'll hear a few of them that think we can privatize but that hardly ever makes sense. The real question is, where did the money go that we pay in gas taxes that is meant to support the infrastructure? A true conservative would have put that money towards what was intended and got the thing replaced when it was shown that it was unstable.
 
DigitalDave said:
Ok, I have to say that I am tired of hearing the bashing of 'conservatives' going when it comes to this incident. You can thank Ike (a conservative) for the Federal Highway System. Conservatives believe the infrastructure of our roads is one of the important issues that government SHOULD take care of. Occasioanlly, you'll hear a few of them that think we can privatize but that hardly ever makes sense. The real question is, where did the money go that we pay in gas taxes that is meant to support the infrastructure? A true conservative would have put that money towards what was intended and got the thing replaced when it was shown that it was unstable.
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First, I wouldn't call Ike a conservative, in the way we use that word in modern america. I don't see Ike being akin to the leaders of the modern republican party: Bush, Cheney, Trent Lott, John Boner, Tom Delay.

Second, I don't doubt the everyone wants good infrastruture. But, the very concept of raising revenue or taxes for anything - including public improvements - has become caricatured as socialism or communism.

There was a time, when a president could tell americans we need to raise and spend revenue on important things. War, infrastructure, highways. And there was little in the way of demonization.

Christ, we can't even talk about raising taxes to pay for bush's war, without running a gauntlet of "socialist" insults.
 
Cypress said:
First, I wouldn't call Ike a conservative, in the way we use that word in modern america. I don't see Ike being akin to the leaders of the modern republican party: Bush, Cheney, Trent Lott, John Boner, Tom Delay.

Second, I don't doubt the everyone wants good infrastruture. But, the very concept of raising revenue or taxes for anything - including public improvements - has become caricatured as socialism or communism.

There was a time, when a president could tell americans we need to raise and spend revenue on important things. War, infrastructure, highways. And there was little in the way of demonization.

Christ, we can't even talk about raising taxes to pay for bush's war, without running a gauntlet of "socialist" insults.
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Exactly, and it's the conservatives who sold it, but it's the American people who bought it. I hope they are happy with their purchase.
 
uscitizen said:
right Darla, we as a nation bought off on it and embraced it. We are all to blame. At least those of us who voted republican.
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You are both right,(that we are all to blame) and wrong that it is limited to republicans.

We have been a War-mongering nation since WWII, and spend our money fighting, and paying for other nations battles, instead of taking care of our own.

Tho I think The Katrina debaucle would have occured sooner or later anyway "DON'T BUILD HOUSES IN SINKHOLE" Our infrastructure is on the losing end.
AND there are special problems.

* The bridge collapsing in California was the result of faulty construction. not age.

* The Bridge in Minneopolis has already been reported to have shimmied and swayed before it collapsed. so why wasn't it reported. It is not hard to understand why and how it collapsed.

* The volcano in NewYork City was the result of KNOWN decay in those pipes, and lastly

* There has been no satisfactory explaination for the collapse of the twin towers on 911. (At least not for the way they collapsed. (perhaps faulty construction.)

YEP, we, and our government is to blame. Not AGE.
 
I guess you can say that today's conservative isn't really conservative at all, since they are the ones going about making changes to the policies and putting us under a police state. Thats not my definition of conservative. Maybe neo-con is what they deserve to be called.

But I think we pay enough in so many different taxes, and the change that needs to take place isn't something to fatten the pockets of the government, but rather changes that better check the spending habits of those holding the money. Like I mentioned before, we have Gasoline taxes which should be going towards the infrastructure. With the price of gas the way it is, the government should be making enough...
 
Darla said:
Exactly, and it's the conservatives who sold it, but it's the American people who bought it. I hope they are happy with their purchase.
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The wierd thing is that when the question is placed before voters, in a straightfoward, non-partisan manner: "Do you want to spend more money to improve infrastructure", it passes. At least in this state.

California voters pass nearly every legitimate statewide initiative for public works and infrastructure improvement. Last year, I think we passed the largest infrastructure bond in history - fourty billion dollars, or something like that.

Its when revenue or taxes are debated in the partisan political arena, that the atmosphere gets poisoned. With cries of "socialist" and "communist!" making the rounds.
 
doniston said:
You are both right,(that we are all to blame) and wrong that it is limited to republicans.

We have been a War-mongering nation since WWII, and spend our money fighting, and paying for other nations battles, instead of taking care of our own.

Tho I think The Katrina debaucle would have occured sooner or later anyway "DON'T BUILD HOUSES IN SINKHOLE" Our infrastructure is on the losing end.
AND there are special problems.

* The bridge collapsing in California was the result of faulty construction. not age.

* The Bridge in Minneopolis has already been reported to have shimmied and swayed before it collapsed. so why wasn't it reported. It is not hard to understand why and how it collapsed.

* The volcano in NewYork City was the result of KNOWN decay in those pipes, and lastly

* There has been no satisfactory explaination for the collapse of the twin towers on 911. (At least not for the way they collapsed. (perhaps faulty construction.)

YEP, we, and our government is to blame. Not AGE.
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I did not limit it to Republicans, but those who recently voted Republican.
And yes the dims in congress that supported this concept are to blame as well. They should not have rented their votes out.
 
Cypress said:
The wierd thing is that when the question is placed before voters, in a straightfoward, non-partisan manner: "Do you want to spend more money to improve infrastructure", it passes. At least in this state.

California voters pass nearly every legitimate statewide initiative for public works and infrastructure improvement. Last year, I think we passed the largest infrastructure bond in history - fourty billion dollars, or something like that.

Its when revenue or taxes are debated in the partisan political arena, that the atmosphere gets poisoned. With cries of "socialist" and "communist!" making the rounds.
Click to expand...

Yeah the FL voters passed a high speed rail initiative, but Gov Bush killed it after the voters had approved it...
 
The republican part has pretty much been shit since Ike!

If Ike was running today he would be my First Choice
 
Bridge Collapse Revives Issue of Road Spending

MINNEAPOLIS, Aug. 6 — In the past two years, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota twice vetoed legislation to raise the state’s gas tax to pay for transportation needs.

Now, with at least five people dead in the collapse of the Interstate 35W bridge here, Mr. Pawlenty, a Republican, appears to have had a change of heart.

“He’s open to that,” Brian McClung, a spokesman for the governor, said Monday of a higher gas tax. “He believes we need to do everything we can to address this situation and the extraordinary costs.”

nytimes.com
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This is such BS, just a few months ago Liberals and many others were (rightly actually) howling about bigtime bucks being spent on a bridge to nowhere.

Clearly the issue is not how much is being spent but where it is spent.
The transportation budget is ludicrously huge and is more prone to pork than any other department of government, mainly because neither party has any interest in trying to worry about costs. What they DO have an interest in is making sure that the money goes to this congressman's or that congresswoman's constituency rather than where it might actually be needed.

This is a big reason why infrastructure like bridges SHOULD be privatized, have private bridges ever seen accidents like this? NO and for good reason because the company is solely concerned with keeping customers paying going over their piece of property which is not going to happen if it falls to pieces.

Privatize bridges and things will be safer, greener (because people pay PER use rather than via taxes, which actually encourages not travelling by vehicle as much), fairer (because poorer taxpayers who have no cars would not pay via taxation), and more financially sensible as there is less taxes and you have more choice and control over whether you really want to drive and where based on it's true cost.

A great suggestion to make to congress!
 
Cypress said:
The title of the article is kinda harsh. Its not my title. But money doesn't grow on trees. You have to actually PAY for infrastrucure improvements. If one's priority is simply cutting taxes to starve govenment of revenue, public infrastructure is going to suffer.
Click to expand...

the funny thing here is that minnesota has been a blue state for quite a few years, probably for the last 30 to 50 atleast untill latley, witch it has been shifting to the right for about the last 10 years or so.

but anyway, the funding package they talk about in the artical, either there wasnt relly any money in it to rebulid the bridge, or it was that it wouldnt have been avaable or possable to start either rebuilding or replacing it for years to come, i belive it was somthing like 2020 or 2015. thats just what i heard though.

another thing is just in the last elections, the left made a huge push and got a transportation bill voted in witch it makes law that all vehical and registration tax goes to transportation, that and that 60% of all taxes collected for transportation must be used for light rail, makeing it even hard to to get funding for this type of bridge.... i did vote to the bill to.

either way, both partys are to blame, but more so is the methodology used in our public transportation needs and safty.

this artical is just a vent wonly directed in my view
 
If the highway system were ran by a private company, things would be different! Only the corporations approved cars would be allowed on the roads, all of which would be toll roads. Drivers would have to prepay their tolls based on an estimated number of miles we plan on driving. Those who drove less than the estimate would not get those miles refunded, those who drove more would be charged for the overage at a higher rate. The approved 'iCar' would be limited to a top speed of 30mph and car salesmen would have no idea how it operates. All accidents, road hazards , and requests for help must be placed between 7am - 9 pm. :tongout:
 
What kind of idiot blames the current admin for the collapse of a bridge buikt 40 years ago that may have had design flaws to begin with?
 
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