Are you a good person?

Are you a good person?

  • Yes, I am a great person

    Votes: 3 37.5%

  • No, I am a pitiful wretch

    Votes: 1 12.5%

  • I have no opinion...

    Votes: 4 50.0%
  • Total voters
    8
AnyOldIron said:
IMPOSSIBLE!!

Inform me of a man who has performed this feat. Let me see, we have STALIN AND HITLER on your side and freakin' JESUS on mine!

WM, I trust your recent conversion to christianity isn't a sincere one and that you are playing devil's advocate?
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Of course he is. That's why I found it so funny.
 
read Roman's 3 IN FULL.....
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I have, Care4all. In fact, I have Chapters 1 - 9 of Romans memorized. Currently, I am working on Chapter 10. What is your point? If you intend to prove that mankind is not depraved -- that he or she can freely choose to perform good as he or she wishes, based on some inherent goodness within him or herself, then not only must you refute the passages of scripture I posted (did you read them?); you must also prove your own point with additional scripture. The Bible ought to be the litmus test for any doctrine.

Do you not agree?

Paul, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, wrote NOT ONE is righteous. How are you the exception? Frankly, I am disappointed you choose to debate this issue. Not only would I think you would know better; it also seems you are being unnecessarily divisive -- something you constantly accuse me of doing.

EDIT: perhaps clarification is needed. Are we discussing God's Standards, or man's standards? I consider you to be a good person by man's standards. Likewise, I think that I am a good person by man's standards. But according to God's Standards, we fall miserably short. Can we agree to this?
 
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Damocles said:
You cannot. According to the book you aren't even supposed to try.
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I cannot what?

We must judge ourselves according to God's standards. If we cannot come to see ourselves for what we really are, we cannot come unto repentance. Repentance is necessary for salvation. Of course, no man or woman comes to this point unless God convicts them of their sins, and calls them to Himself.
 
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Augustine said:
I cannot what?

We must judge ourselves according to God's standards. If we cannot come to see ourselves for what we really are, we cannot come unto repentance. Repentance is necessary for salvation. Of course, no man or woman comes to this point unless God convicts them of their sins, and calls them to Himself.
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You must attempt to live by God's law, according to the book, but will fail. It says that only God can know the heart of man.

In other words He knows you better than you know yourself.

It would be an impossibility to judge yourself, or any other, without that same knowledge. You cannot. And you are not supposed to try.
 
Yes, it is, if you are concerned for your immortal soul.

The point in the bible is that all man is wretched in God's eyes and are riddled with sin and thus are not allowed to enter heaven. Only the acceptance of Christ can cleanse this sin. That is if you hold to evangelical beliefs.

However that realization is not relevant in how we judge one another. We do not hold the keys to the gate of heaven.

A fish that judges other fish by how wet they are is wasting his time. Only a creature on dry land could compare them.
 
"Whether or not you're a good person is defined by GOD and that's that, folks!"

Well then, given that I am pure evil... you're all pretty much screwed. :burn:
 
Damocles said:
You must attempt to live by God's law, according to the book, but will fail.
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We do not attempt to live by God's law, per se. We surrender ourselves to Christ and permit Him to change us from within outward. As Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15:10, by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

It says that only God can know the heart of man.
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I agree for the most part. However, the thoughts of the heart are manifest in deeds.

In other words He knows you better than you know yourself.
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Absolutely true.

It would be an impossibility to judge yourself, or any other, without that same knowledge. You cannot.
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I know I am a sinner because God has told me so. Things which would be considered morally acceptable to the world, are wrong according to the law of God. I know this by the power of the Holy Spirit.

And you are not supposed to try.
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We are not supposed to try acknowledging our sinfulness?

Where does it say any such thing in the Bible?
 
Augustine said:
We do not attempt to live by God's law, per se. We surrender ourselves to Christ and permit Him to change us from within outward. As Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15:10, by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.



I agree for the most part. However, the thoughts of the heart are manifest in deeds.



Absolutely true.



I know I am a sinner because God has told me so. Things which would be considered morally acceptable to the world, are wrong according to the law of God. I know this by the power of the Holy Spirit.



We are not supposed to try acknowledging our sinfulness?

Where does it say any such thing in the Bible?
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It says that you cannot know His mind. Attempting to guess at it is not an option. The idea that you could judge yourself as he would is simply right out. Directly stated as impossible. As for the judging of others specifically it tells you not to do that at all.

So, go ahead and tell me how you know His mind... Tell me how you can judge yourself when it is very clear. If you believe as you say you do, then this subject is simply moot.
 
One who does not judge others is a fool, that "Thou shalt not be judge lest ye be judged" deals with judging someones elese status with god and going to heaven and such.
One must judge that someone is a danger to them here on earth or they are a fool.

I discussed this with several professors at a local theological seminary and they agreed with my intrepretation.
 
Damocles,

Because you are not a Christian, you do not understand that we have a relationship with God, including personal revelation. I know what is wrong because God tells me what is wrong, and I know the will of God because I seek it. The God of the Bible is a knowable God.

USCitizen,

Your interpretation is incorrect, as Jesus commanded, Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. What Jesus does condemn is hypocritical judgment. For instance, the Pharisees who would judge a person for a particular sin, while committing that sin themselves. This is the essence of hypocrisy. Paul summarizes this in Romans chapter two, verse one of which says, Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Consistency with John 7:24 requires the interpretation above to be the correct one.

I discussed this with several professors at a local theological seminary
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Most of the theological seminaries are groveling in darkness, and know nothing of God. They are blind men leading the blind.
 
No, because you are trapped in the idea that you must be able to understand yourself you simply refuse to listen to the parts that actually state that you cannot know your own mind as well as this Deity. Pretending that you can somehow know his mind is ridiculous. Especially when it is clear that all of you fail. It is your own belief system. The attempt to categorically know what your Deity is thinking and wants for your is only an attempt, you cannot know, and all of you have failed.
 
Augustine said:
Damocles,

Because you are not a Christian, you do not understand that we have a relationship with God, including personal revelation. I know what is wrong because God tells me what is wrong, and I know the will of God because I seek it. The God of the Bible is a knowable God.

USCitizen,

Your interpretation is incorrect, as Jesus commanded, Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. What Jesus does condemn is hypocritical judgment. For instance, the Pharisees who would judge a person for a particular sin, while committing that sin themselves. This is the essence of hypocrisy. Paul summarizes this in Romans chapter two, verse one of which says, Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Consistency with John 7:24 requires the interpretation above to be the correct one.



Most of the theological seminaries are groveling in darkness, and know nothing of God. They are blind men leading the blind.
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So as is the bible leading the blind.
How can man be anything but blind about the unprovable ?
Oh I suppose some can be blindly arrogant and think "they" have it figured out.

Which Tehological seminaries are not groveling in the dark ?

Is this the old everyone else but my religious variant (church) is wrong ? I was raised in one of those evangelical churches.....
 
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