T
TRGLDTE
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He didn't, it's a righty spin job.
At Least He's Clean
- Thread starter toby
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I don’t know what he meant Trog. Maybe it was innocent as you and Ornot seem to believe. In which case, he’s another Kerry who can’t stop from fumbling over himself and I am up to here with that.
But I saw another clip, from a couple of years ago, where I saw him with my own eyes make some remarks about 7-11’s and Indians. It makes me uncomfortable. And I have liked Biden, and I think he is a smart guy. Maybe I was wrong about that. But smart or not, I won’t have a racist. I’m just not happy about the whole thing.
I didn't hear the 7-11 remark. But from everything else that came out of his mouth, he definitely hold a very low opinion of black people in general. Its not a stretch to think that he meant.....well, what he said "clean". There is no skirting around it in my opinion. He'd tried to clean it up by blaming his mom's expression of "Clean as a whistle", but come on. Even if you can past it, everything else he said in the sentence was down right insulting.
The only thing he said that I think could be excused as just common sense and a matter of opinion, is when he called him the “first mainstream black candidate”. I think that’s probably true. I don’t think Al Sharpton is any more mainstream that Dennis Kucinich. But Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, there is no question to me that they are both articulate, and it has never occurred to me that they were in any way “dirty”.
I think the smell test for me has to be, if a Southern Republican said it what would I believe? If George Allen had said this, no one would convince me it wasn’t racist. So when I think that my own prejudices for Democrats or liberals, might be coloring my views, then that’s what I have to go to. Otherwise I’d be a big hypocrite like so many righties that I have known, and whom have disgusted me with their hypocrisies. It helps keep you honest, even just to yourself. Because sometimes on account of ideology, you can start telling lies to yourself.
This is true and I why I try not to be a Democratic apologist. The repugs have made it into an artform. As for Biden's comment, perhaps, if he'd stopped at Mainstream African-American, I wouldn't give two $hits either way. That's debatable. But "articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy", "storybook"? Storybook? WTF does that mean? A black man who can articulate, washes himself and is articulate is a mythical being? Biden has lost my support forever. The more he tries to twist it to be something it wasn't, I think I'll lose even more respect for him.
I'm actually a disappointed in myself for considering supporting him if he ran.
You shouldn't be disappointed in yourself. i had been considering him too, because I am impressed with his measured and smart plans on Iraq, and his talking about stopping bush also from attacking Iran.
This is what the nomination process is all about. It's kind of like dating. You can be fooled at first, but that isn't on you so much as it is on the person who is not showing you who they really are yet. You have to get to know the person, and the spotlight of running for President allows us to do that. I still do not know who I am going to be supporting. I am just sitting back and watching them all.
Do you really think he was talking about hygiene? I've always admired Al Sharton's style and clothes.
I think it was an offensive statement. I think anyone (including me) is capable of making an offensive statement: it's what's in his heart that matters. Is Biden a racist? I'm listening to Al Sharpton on Hardball now, and Sharpton is vouching for Biden's character.
I'm not voting for Biden, so I don't have a dog in this race. But, I agree, the statement in and of itself, was stupid and offensive.
Do you really think he was talking about hygiene? I've always admired Al Sharton's style and clothes.
I think it was an offensive statement. I think anyone (including me) is capable of making an offensive statement: it's what's in his heart that matters. Is Biden a racist? I'm listening to Al Sharpton on Hardball now, and Sharpton is vouching for Biden's character.
I'm not voting for Biden, so I don't have a dog in this race. But, I agree, the statement in and of itself, was stupid and offensive.
Yeah maybe, you know, I don't know him. Maybe he's not a racist. But his remarks made me uncomfortable. And the bottom line too, in a completely pragmatic manner, the last thing we need is another damned Democrat who has to spend five days explaining his stupid remarks. Christ, is it too much to ask for someone who can keep their foot out of their mouth? After a while, you start to think that it is.
great point darla: about the not needing tongue-tied dems.
Personally, I think its patently obvious what biden was saying: He was saying that Obama is the first serious (mainstream) african american candidate who has a shot at winning the presidency -- in part, because he doesn't scare (some) white people - he talks like "us" (clean, articulate).
This is uncomfortable to talk about: but we all know in our hearts that dudes like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (God Bless them) scare a lot of southern white voters and suburban soccer moms. Maybe they don't scare you or me - but they DO scare some white folk. That's just an unfortunate fact.
Personally, I think its patently obvious what biden was saying: He was saying that Obama is the first serious (mainstream) african american candidate who has a shot at winning the presidency -- in part, because he doesn't scare (some) white people - he talks like "us" (clean, articulate).
This is uncomfortable to talk about: but we all know in our hearts that dudes like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (God Bless them) scare a lot of southern white voters and suburban soccer moms. Maybe they don't scare you or me - but they DO scare some white folk. That's just an unfortunate fact.
Could be. Imagine being scared by Al Sharpton? That guy is hystercial, I'd love to hang with him. I literally almost peed myself laughing at his speech at the convention, when he kept saying, in that way of his "Well, Mr. Bush" and then went into the donkey and the elephant thing. Other than being funny, he's one sharp debator. I've yet to see anyone get the best of him. And Jackson is one of our best orators. But if what you're saying is that black people have to be more of everything in order to be viable, kind of like the general wisdom seems to hold that Hillary, because she is a woman has to prove her toughness and can't afford to be seen as "anti-war"... maybe. I'm so far out of the mainstream at this point that I can't even pretend to know. What the hell do I know about what soccer moms want Cypress? A lot of them seem to have boring husbands who hit on women while they're at work. That's about the extent of my knowledge on the subject.
