At What Point?

[Dutch Uncle]

that's not why Jesus is a legend.

he's a legend due to the genius of his moral teaching, and his direct confrontation of corrupt earthly authority figures.


you people miss the point on everything.

I'm thinking rising from the dead is a pretty good reason to remember someone.

There've been a lot of wise rabbis in the past. Even some who learned about Buddhism. Who remembers them? Especially in a time when few people were literate.

Why do you hate everyone with whom you disagree?

 

[Litmus]

I'm thinking rising from the dead is a pretty good reason to remember someone.

There've been a lot of wise rabbis in the past. Even some who learned about Buddhism. Who remembers them? Especially in a time when few people were literate.

Why do you hate everyone with whom you disagree?

that's just a good creepypasta / urban legend / urbex.

his revolutionary moral teachings made him The King.

 

[Kafka]

I'm thinking rising from the dead is a pretty good reason to remember someone.

It certainly makes for a good story.

 

[Hume]

Some people think a person can rise from the dead.
Some think Trump is a great man.
Lot of stupid people in the world.

 

[Kafka]

that's not why Jesus is a legend.

It appears to have been pretty important to the early church. The Messiah was supposed to be a powerful military leader who would lead the people of Israel against all foes (eg the Romans) but when Jesus failed to be even remotely like the prophesied Messiah and had the ignominious death at the hands of the Romans, a death along with common criminals, the resurrection would serve to really instill the point that Jesus was different from the mass of other teachers who wandered Palestine at the time.

While I think we can all agree the real VALUE was the teachings, but clearly the early church had a vested interest in Jesus NOT simply dying in the way of all flesh.

So it kind of becomes very important.

you people miss the point on everything.

No one "missed the point". EVERYONE understands your position that the TEACHINGS of Jesus were the most important. This is NOT, however, how the FAITH itself developed.

 

[Kafka]

Rationally, it makes more sense to me than miracles, or a wide-ranging conspiracy by the apostles to fabricate the story of the resurrection.

Occam's Razor would suggest there may even be a more simple and more rational explanation. Maybe it never happened.

It's even easier to just put the words on paper.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

that's just a good creepypasta / urban legend / urbex.

his revolutionary moral teachings made him The King.

You really are over the edge, Fredo. For your own sake, I hope you can't run around unescorted.

 

[Litmus]

It appears to have been pretty important to the early church. The Messiah was supposed to be a powerful military leader who would lead the people of Israel against all foes (eg the Romans) but when Jesus failed to be even remotely like the prophesied Messiah and had the ignominious death at the hands of the Romans, a death along with common criminals, the resurrection would serve to really instill the point that Jesus was different from the mass of other teachers who wandered Palestine at the time.

While I think we can all agree the real VALUE was the teachings, but clearly the early church had a vested interest in Jesus NOT simply dying in the way of all flesh.

So it kind of becomes very important.




No one "missed the point". EVERYONE understands your position that the TEACHINGS of Jesus were the most important. This is NOT, however, how the FAITH itself developed.

no.

you people are dumb a focus on the wrong stuff, on purpose.

 

[Kafka]

no.

you people are dumb a focus on the wrong stuff, on purpose.

Except I agreed with your point. You really do post like BidenPresident. Even when people agree with you, you lose your shit.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Occam's Razor would suggest there may even be a more simple and more rational explanation. Maybe it never happened.

It's even easier to just put the words on paper.

Too much evidence of existence. I like the ripples-in-a-pond analogy, but Judge Merchan's Rain metaphor seems to be more popular.

This is the rain metaphor the jury has asked to be re-read

A Manhattan jury found Donald Trump guilty on all 34 counts of falsifying business records he faced in his New York hush money criminal trial.

www.cnn.com

Here's that metaphor, which was originally read in court yesterday:

"For example, suppose you go to bed one night when it is not raining and when you wake up in the morning, you look out your window; you do not see rain, but you see that the street and sidewalk are wet, and that people are wearing raincoats and carrying umbrellas. Under those circumstances, it may be reasonable to infer, that is conclude, that it rained during the night. In other words, the fact of it having rained while you were asleep is an inference that might be drawn from the proven facts of the presence of the water on the street and sidewalk, and people in raincoats and carrying umbrellas."

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It certainly makes for a good story.

Agreed. One of a kind.

The common medicine and knowledge from 2000 years ago was next to nil. A person removed early off a crucifixion and, although appearing dead, survives is quite a tale.

 

[Kafka]

Too much evidence of existence. I like the ripples-in-a-pond analogy, but Judge Merchan's Rain metaphor seems to be more popular.

I am unfamiliar with any actual "evidence" of the Resurrection outside of the Gospels. And since the Gospels were all written decades after the fact by unknown authors I don't necessarily give too much credence.

But I'm open to considering the "evidence" you have. Thanks!

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I am unfamiliar with any actual "evidence" of the Resurrection outside of the Gospels. And since the Gospels were all written decades after the fact by unknown authors I don't necessarily give too much credence.

But I'm open to considering the "evidence" you have. Thanks!

The impact and spread of Christianity is the evidence. Why did it spread? Why were its followers so devout that they chose death over renouncing it? Why did it become the religion of the Roman Emperor within 300 years.

 

[Hume]

The impact and spread of Christianity is the evidence. Why did it spread? Why were its followers so devout that they chose death over renouncing it? Why did it become the religion of the Roman Emperor within 300 years.

Why were Hitler and Trump popular? Masses are stupid.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Why were Hitler and Trump popular? Masses are stupid.

Multiple reasons covering both economic and political, fearmongering, years of eroding the public education, etc.

Mobs are stupid, Those who believe in democracy do not believe the masses are the same.

Are you against democracy, Hume? Do you support eliminating the Electoral College in favor of a "masses" vote for President?

 

[Kafka]

The impact and spread of Christianity is the evidence. Why did it spread?

Oh I know the answer to that: Paul and the Roman trade routes/infrastructure. Paul did a great job spreading word of the new faith and helping to craft the new faith. He even helped provide a path out of it being limited to just another Jewish Apocalyptic sect by opening it up to the Gentiles.

Why were its followers so devout that they chose death over renouncing it?

There were a few people who decided to die in the fires of Waco following their Messiah. I don't see that as evidence of David Koresh's divinity. Hundreds of people committed suicide on the word of Jim Jones, yet I don't necessarily see that as evidence of his divinity.

Why did it become the religion of the Roman Emperor within 300 years.

There's reason to believe Constantine rejiggered the Roman religious landscape for political reasons. Given that Constantine lived hundreds of years after Christ's life, again, I can't really see his actions as evidence of the truth of the resurrection.

It's like Mitt Romney being a Mormon in the modern world hardly means that the story of the Golden Tablets is ipso facto true, as a counter-example.

 

[Hume]

Multiple reasons covering both economic and political, fearmongering, years of eroding the public education, etc.

Mobs are stupid, Those who believe in democracy do not believe the masses are the same.

Are you against democracy, Hume? Do you support eliminating the Electoral College in favor of a "masses" vote for President?

Topic is religion. My point is that populations believing something does not make it true.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Topic is religion. My point is that populations believing something does not make it true.

The common denominator is people, hence the link between religion and politics.

IMO, you knew that but ran from it, which I find very, very curious.

Agreed that populations believing something, such as Hillary Clinton would have made the perfect President, does not make it true. Why did you run from the democracy question? Am I correct about why?

 

[Cypress]

Occam's Razor would suggest there may even be a more simple and more rational explanation. Maybe it never happened.

It's even easier to just put the words on paper.

That requires a coordinated conspiracy among multiple people to fabricate the story of the resurrection, and carefully maintain the ruse for decades. Some of the disciples were still alive when the earliest Christian literature was being written.

The christians require a miracle

You require a coordinated conspiracy.

My theory only requires a rational medical explanation, fitting the written accounts and based on an established historical principle: the Hebrew death ritual in antiquity required inspecting the body for several days to ensure he or she was dead.

 

[Trumpet]

So, at what point do we tell our children that there is no Santa Claus, no Easter Bunny, or that babies don’t come from storks?

Where do we start providing them with critical thinking skills where they can begin to separate fact from fiction?

That people really can’t walk on water, that one boat can’t fit all animals, that rainbows are from the refraction of light, that people aren’t resurrected?

Where do schools draw the line on perpetuating myths without being at risk for offending someone’s theology?

"that one boat can hold 2 of every animals" Whoever dreamed this up sure didn't know much about our planet, and the number of species on this planet.