I'm still curious about your hypothesis that Jesus went scuppering off like a conman. I don't agree with it. But I'm curious why you think it most appropriate.
At What Point?
- Thread starter domer76
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I'm still curious about your hypothesis that Jesus went scuppering off like a conman. I don't agree with it. But I'm curious why you think it most appropriate.
You definitely have a PhD in sock hunting
Would you care to defend your hypothesis of Jesus as a conman who ran off in the dark of night after realizing he wasn't dead from the Crucifixion? And why do you think the Disciples lied about it as well?
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Good points about emotional investment and agreed on the extremes of both theists and atheists.
Interesting comment from Einstein. and agreed with the thought.
^^^^Sticking to the topic like a pro.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
^^^
Lies about what others posted.
Perry, quote the post then ask for a clarification.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
IronyNope. Your buddy Cypress insisted on mischaracterizing my position so I'm simply following his lead to understand his hypothesis.
CLEARLY he believe Christ was either a conman or the DIsciples were liars. Unless of course he allows that some stories in the NT were....made up. If that were the case I'd be fine. It would make sense.
But he's set the ground rules so I'm just following his hypothesis.
I would ask Cypress where I said the authors of the Gospels were "lying because they thought they could get away with it" as he's said several times. Of course I never said or proposed any such thing, in fact I explained how it could be quite honest of later writers. But Cypress doesn't allow that.
It is HIS hypothesis that Christ was either a conman or the Disciples were liars.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
1. Perry can't cite the quote. Implies he lied because he claims Cypress lied.
2. Perry lies about Cypress's position on Jesus.
3. Blames Cypress for everything while disclaiming any responsibility for his own actions.
These are a few reasons why I believe you have "issues", Perry.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
^^^
The Google King can't quote Cypress saying any of this because the quotes don't exist.
Cypress lied about my point NUMEROUS times now and you never once piped up.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...... Interesting
Cypress lied about my position numerous times and you didn't get amped up.
Not sure why you guys have such a dim view of the early Church but, hey, that's your thing to figure out.
Seymour Butz! He signed my doctoral certificate. In proctology.I even have a certificate as real as Perry's!
Meanwhile, back on topic:
The same age we tell them about sex, pedophiles, murder and show them pictures of the executions by Hamas in Israel.
I believe Jesus was a human prophet, not a god, and on the off chance he survived the crucifixion, he might understandably have fled Judea as he was a convicted criminal under Roman law.
That is a rational, but unprovable theory for the resurrection story, for the meeting with some of his disciples, for his ultimate disappearance, for leaving his brother James in charge of the apostolic Jerusalem community, and for a genuine belief among the disciples that he had ascended to heaven.
The problem for people with very little education in history is they try to understand antiquity through their own 21st century filter and biases.
Near death experiences weren't understood until the 20th century. It is reasonable to think both Jesus and the disciples would interpret an NDE as miraculous.
For an agnostic, you have more faith in god than most Christians.
Run off like a conman in the night? Why would such a great teacher do that? And if he thought he was in danger from the Romans and the Jewish authorities he would have known that even BEFORE he was crucified.
So the Disciples knew he was resurrected but they didn't know what happened to him later on? And they didn't tell Paul that he just wandered off somewhere?
Or are you of the opinion that they simply ASSUMED he had ascended to heaven?
Either way you are right up against the very thing you tell me is impossible: that it couldn't just be a made-up story after the fact many decades. Even quite innocently penned.
Based on what exactly? For some reason you seem to think it is PROVEN that he came out of the tomb alive. But you are willing to let EVERYTHING ELSE be made up or misinterpretation.
So you believe the Disciples couldn't find Jesus a few days later after supposedly coming back from the dead so they ASSUMED he ascended into heaven?
Why didn't they tell Paul "Oh, yeah, JC came back from the dead and then one day we couldn't find him anymore". Instead of committing this story down that he either vanished in front of them or flew up into the sky in front of them.
Personally I'm more happy with the supernatural stuff being as likely made up after the fact (even quite innocently by people who may have believed it) as your exegesis involving NDE's and mystical disappearances.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Perry is in need of your services. He seems to have a blockage.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
What in Cypress's post makes you believe he has "more faith in god than most Christians"?
One only need to use simple logic and just a little homework to conclude that the Bible is significantly fiction. Some narratives may have a modicum of truth, but the entire premise of this single god is hogwash.masons always have to be the experts on religion, so they can lie about it.
Litmus
Verified User
but the single God part is not wha't's important.
and is 'multiple gods' more believable?