BAC Supports Iraq War

[Cypress]

Americans WERE told the truth about Iraq and they rejected that truth and the people who told them.

We were also told the truth about our fraudulent voting system years ago .. and it's still fraudulent.

No, americans weren't told the truth in a way that was loud and clear. You, I, and other savvy people found the truth on our own.

PBS's Frontline Show (a show with unimpeachable credibility) did a show a few months back on the media and the iraq war. Outside of McClathcy (Knight Ridder) newpapers - which are only in small media markets - no american media was telling the truth in a transparent and consistent way. And in fact, mostly they were lying and carrying water for bush.

 

[uscitizen]

there's no inherant advantage of a parliamentary system, IMO. Those citizens don't even get to choose their national leaders. The party elite do.

And our party elite's do not pick the potential leaders that we are allowed to vote on in the primary ? And absolutely the one who gets the most votes in the primary is the parties candidate ?

 

[blackascoal]

BAC: I don't think you realize the sheer magnitude of the deception perpetrated on average american citizens. Our "free press" is actually one of the least free presses in the developed world by all international standards. You can't expect people like my uncles, sweating their asses of in the coal mines, and trying to survive and provide for a family, to come home get on the internet, and read the british and french press to learn the truth.

The media joined hands with Bu$hCo., to sell a lie to the american people. My grandmother is not capable of telling if alumimun tubes or niger uranium is bullshit, unless the america media loudly and unanimously declares it bullshit. And if more dems and repubs with guts yelled at the top of their lungs that it was BS.

I don't completely disagree with you my brother .. which is why I continue to say that Americans are the most naive people ever INVENTED. We've been conditioned to reject our own image in the mirror. American intervention and misdeeds that cost countless human lives and suffering is not new and was not ushered in by the Bush Administration.

With Bush, American imperialism was stripped naked for all the world to see, but even then Americans were the very last people to recognize the deceptions .. hundreds of thousands of dead innocent people later.

 

[blackascoal]

there's no inherant advantage of a parliamentary system, IMO. Those citizens don't even get to choose their national leaders. The party elite do.

And our party elite's do not pick the potential leaders that we are allowed to vote on in the primary ? And absolutely the one who gets the most votes in the primary is the parties candidate ?

Absolutely right on point.

The American people are strongly against this war .. but the chosen candidate of the so-called dopposition party, Hillary Clinton, is as pro-war as anyone on the opposite side of the aisle.

Some choice.

 

[Timshel]

Although Americans were indeed dumb enough to support this war, they didn't ask for it or order it. Glaring difference that people with brains would have no problem understanding.

lol, now you are trying to throw some nonsense stipulations.

When did they ask for or order religion to be stricken from the classroom? Most of that happened through court cases. Note: I am not saying it should be there if a simple majority calls for it, that's bac's position.

When did they ask for or order abortion to be legalized? When did they ask for or order a DEA, CIA, FBI, FEMA, BATF, IRS on and on. They did not.

You are full of shit dude and you are once again evading. This is the result of your premises.

 

[Cypress]

there's no inherant advantage of a parliamentary system, IMO. Those citizens don't even get to choose their national leaders. The party elite do.

And our party elite's do not pick the potential leaders that we are allowed to vote on in the primary ? And absolutely the one who gets the most votes in the primary is the parties candidate ?

Brits don't even vote for their national leader. That would piss me off. Its the nature of their system. We, at least, vote for ours in primaries and national elections. As yes, the power of our elite is strong, but Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and others, were not the choice of the elites. It was the power of their primary performances, and grass roots democracy, that propelled them to the white house.

 

[blackascoal]

No, americans weren't told the truth in a way that was loud and clear. You, I, and other savvy people found the truth on our own.

PBS's Frontline Show (a show with unimpeachable credibility) did a show a few months back on the media and the iraq war. Outside of McClathcy (Knight Ridder) newpapers - which are only in small media markets - no american media was telling the truth in a transparent and consistent way. And in fact, mostly they were lying and carrying water for bush.

Cynthia McKinney was screaming it at the top of her lungs. She was rejected, including by her own party. Barbara Lee and the Congressional Black Caucus was screaming it and when they tried to force the issue, not a single US Senator would stand with them .. as documented in Michael Moore's film.

I don't believe that you and I "found" truth on our own .. we already KNEW the truth and found the evidence to support that truth.

 

[uscitizen]

I don't believe that you and I "found" truth on our own .. we already KNEW the truth and found the evidence to support that truth.
//

yes we had to look for it. the media did not push it nearly as well as Brittanys pitiful performance the other day....

 

[Adam Weinberg]

What are we going to do .. get mad and vote for republicans?

Some people will this time...for a certain Republican.

Third-parties, ballot access, and campaign financing are required to escape the trap .. and of course a more intelligent populace.

I never would have pegged you for someone who cared about ballot access, given your pleasure in disregarding the most important minority voice in the Republican race, and your particular disregard for his showing in 1988. Anyone well versed in ballot access should know the difficulty such an effort faces.

Ballot access has to do with the principle of allowing people to make their own choices and have those choices available to them, even if very few people will automatically select them.

Of course, Democrats and Republicans say that other choices make for "cluttered ballots" and that they are confusing to voters. Both of which are merely excuses so that the only choices on a ballot remain Candidate A or Candidate B, and in many places in the country, just Candidate A running unopposed.

 

[TheDanold]

Cynthia McKinney was screaming it at the top of her lungs. She was rejected, including by her own party. Barbara Lee and the Congressional Black Caucus was screaming it and when they tried to force the issue, not a single US Senator would stand with them .. as documented in Michael Moore's film.

I don't believe that you and I "found" truth on our own .. we already KNEW the truth and found the evidence to support that truth.

You know I do have to give you credit BAC, you're honestly the first Liberal I've ever met that has the guts to argue against his own kind and I have to say you got this point at least right. I remember what Barbara Lee said very clearly and in contrast to what the major Dems were saying at the time (ie: Edwards, Pelosi, Clinton, Kerry, etc...)

Cypress is nailed.

 

[Cancel7]

You know I do have to give you credit BAC, you're honestly the first Liberal I've ever met that has the guts to argue against his own kind and I have to say you got this point at least right. I remember what Barbara Lee said very clearly and in contrast to what the major Dems were saying at the time (ie: Edwards, Pelosi, Clinton, Kerry, etc...)

Cypress is nailed.

"Barbara Lee and the Congressional Black Caucus was screaming it and when they tried to force the issue, not a single US Senator would stand with them .. as documented in Michael Moore's film".

When BAC wrote that, he was referring to what event Dano? Do you believe that not a single US Senator stood against the Iraqi war? You don't even know what the hell he is talking about do you Dano?

 

[blackascoal]

Some people will this time...for a certain Republican.

And that's understandable just from this point alone. Americans are frustrated as hell with our political system and looking for any alternative to the status quo. Ron Paul is an alternative to the status quo and if it wasn't for some of the more outrageous things about him, I might be looking at him as well.

It might surprise you to know that I cheered his run for the presidency when he first announced as I'm antiwar and I've been reading his articles against the war for some time. I told friends that he was a republican I could support .. then I began looking into his background as I would of anyone I would support.

I never would have pegged you for someone who cared about ballot access, given your pleasure in disregarding the most important minority voice in the Republican race, and your particular disregard for his showing in 1988. Anyone well versed in ballot access should know the difficulty such an effort faces.

Ballot access has to do with the principle of allowing people to make their own choices and have those choices available to them, even if very few people will automatically select them.

Of course, Democrats and Republicans say that other choices make for "cluttered ballots" and that they are confusing to voters. Both of which are merely excuses so that the only choices on a ballot remain Candidate A or Candidate B, and in many places in the country, just Candidate A running unopposed.

I'm well versed on the issue of ballot access and and all functions of voting. I not only know the issue, I'm working with Greens and others to ensure ballot access to all parties. I'm on the left, but I'm not a democrat.

I bet that you and I would agree on a great many issues .. just not Ron Paul.

 

[Cypress]

Cynthia McKinney was screaming it at the top of her lungs. She was rejected, including by her own party. Barbara Lee and the Congressional Black Caucus was screaming it and when they tried to force the issue, not a single US Senator would stand with them .. as documented in Michael Moore's film.

I don't believe that you and I "found" truth on our own .. we already KNEW the truth and found the evidence to support that truth.

BAC, people in this country don't watch Cspan, and see Cynthia McKinney or Russ Feingold warning that this war would be a folly.

People get their news either through mainstream media, or through osmosis and filters within the rest of our culture.


I am not comfortable blaming coal miners, auto workers, day care workers, and single moms working three jobs for the Iraq War. That's what we supposedly have a free press for: to be a watchdog on the government.

Its beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the american media and corporate structure, joined hands with bush to lie us into a war. Cynthia McKinney and the congressional Dems who did raise the alarm, didn't get hardly any coverage, outside of cspan. And I can guarantee you, that coal miners, and single moms with three jobs aren't watching C-span, nor are they surfing the net for the British, French, and Swedish media.