Bernie wins New Hampshire!

[Bigdog]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany

"Germany has the world's oldest national social health insurance system,[1] with origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck's social legislation, which included the Health Insurance Bill of 1883, Accident Insurance Bill of 1884, and Old Age and Disability Insurance Bill of 1889.'

Leading to socialist Germany starting the two largest, deadliest, most destructive wars in world history.

Proving that socialism is based on racism, ... and that socialism is just the modern word for monarchy.

 

[LV426]

how about keeping jobs for americans so they can just buy stuff normally?

I'm all for keeping Americans employed...the problem is that technical advances have caused a lot of jobs to be lost to automation and AI.

A guaranteed jobs program, like the Green New Deal, will provide employment opportunities for those whose jobs were killed by robots and the internet.

the populist impulse is good. your confiscation and redistribution solution to every problem is bad.

If you consider taxation "confiscation", then you're being melodramatic. We pay taxes for things we don't use all the time. In this case, it's hard to see how you wouldn't use health care for the rest of your life.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

We tried BoThSiDeS with Obama and Clinton. All it did was make Conservatives more intransigent. In what world would the Republicans, who just covered for Trump and defended the illegitimate attacks against Joe Biden, ever want to work with Democrats?

Are we all suffering amnesia when it comes to the last 10 years?

more like denial.

 

[LV426]

Do you understand how proposals become law?

Are you familiar with the rules of the Senate?

Are you aware of something called the filibuster and the majority required to block one?

As long as there are more than 34 Republicans or members of either party in the Senate who oppose ol' BS's proposals, there will not be enough votes to pass them.

It's very simple.

Like they passed Obama's proposals?

Oh right, Conservatives didn't.

So...in what world would Conservatives, who spent the last 10 years digging into fascism, ever reach across the aisle to work on Democratic proposals?

Do we not remember what happened the last 10 years?????

 

[Sammy Jankis]

I'm all for keeping Americans employed...the problem is that technical advances have caused a lot of jobs to be lost to automation and AI.

A guaranteed jobs program, like the Green New Deal, will provide employment opportunities for those whose jobs were killed by robots and the internet.




If you consider taxation "confiscation", then you're being melodramatic. We pay taxes for things we don't use all the time. In this case, it's hard to see how you wouldn't use health care for the rest of your life.

and im fine with that for truly collective things.

personal income is not under that rubric. trade policy is.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Like they passed Obama's proposals?

Oh right, Conservatives didn't.

So...in what world would Conservatives, who spent the last 10 years digging into fascism, ever reach across the aisle to work on Democratic proposals?

Do we not remember what happened the last 10 years?????

your revolution isn't happening, doh-tard.

 

[LV426]

more like denial.

Right, so my point is that it doesn't matter who the Democratic nominee is, Conservatives won't work with them. They won't work with Biden, Sanders, Warren, Buttigieg, Klobuchar...it doesn't matter because anyone who isn't a Conservative and/or Republican is illegitimate to Conservatives and Republicans. That's just what they've been spoon-feeding their base since 1980.

Thing is, though, we don't need those voters in order to win elections. People talk about, OOOO the Dems should nominate a candidate who will get Trump voters, and I say that's dumb because it's much harder to convince someone to vote for you who thinks you're illegitimate, than it is to convince someone who didn't vote to come out and vote for Medicare for All. It's an easier conversation to have there.

Non-voters (95 million in 2016) are who Democrats should be fighting for, not Trump voters who act in bad faith. If Democrats expanded the voter participation by just 5%, they'd win in a landslide. You aren't going to increase voter participation by running on small ideas or the same tired, hollow, empty promise of "bipartisanship". You can't have bipartisanship when one side sees the other as illegitimate.

A moderate is a sure fire way to guarantee a loss to Trump. Like, if Buttigieg gets up there on the debate stage and says something generic and hollow like "the freedom of the flag is what lifts the spirit of democracy", and Trump responds by making a fart sound with his mouth and then calls Buttigieg a "f*g", followed by Trump winning.

But Trump is afraid of Bernie because he knows Bernie doesn't mince words.

Plus, Brooklyn > Queens every time.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Right, so my point is that it doesn't matter who the Democratic nominee is, Conservatives won't work with them. They won't work with Biden, Sanders, Warren, Buttigieg, Klobuchar...it doesn't matter because anyone who isn't a Conservative and/or Republican is illegitimate to Conservatives and Republicans. That's just what they've been spoon-feeding their base since 1980.

Thing is, though, we don't need those voters in order to win elections. People talk about, OOOO the Dems should nominate a candidate who will get Trump voters, and I say that's dumb because it's much harder to convince someone to vote for you who thinks you're illegitimate, than it is to convince someone who didn't vote to come out and vote for Medicare for All. It's an easier conversation to have there.

Non-voters (95 million in 2016) are who Democrats should be fighting for, not Trump voters who act in bad faith. If Democrats expanded the voter participation by just 5%, they'd win in a landslide. You aren't going to increase voter participation by running on small ideas or the same tired, hollow, empty promise of "bipartisanship". You can't have bipartisanship when one side sees the other as illegitimate.

A moderate is a sure fire way to guarantee a loss to Trump. Like, if Buttigieg gets up there on the debate stage and says something generic and hollow like "the freedom of the flag is what lifts the spirit of democracy", and Trump responds by making a fart sound with his mouth and then calls Buttigieg a "f*g", followed by Trump winning.

But Trump is afraid of Bernie because he knows Bernie doesn't mince words.

Plus, Brooklyn > Queens every time.

you're winning move is off limits for your ideological constraints. be more anti-globalist. that's why trump won. and rejecting globalism, globalism being the ultimate triumph of corporatism, should be in line with your stated values, but why isn't it in reality?

oh because you're all about totalitarianism? that sounds right.

 

[LV426]

and im fine with that for truly collective things.

personal income is not under that rubric. trade policy is.

Well, I don't think you can necessarily separate the two. People's income is directly related to trade policies. You can't really talk about one without the other. Pooling together everyone's income in order to have access to healthcare that is free at the point of service saves everyone money, including businesses.

The average business pays an average of $15K per year per employee to sponsor coverage, with the employee paying an average of $5K.

Any tax increase for M4A is more than offset by the need to no longer pay deductibles, premiums, copays, coinsurance, drug costs, hospitals, ambulance rides, etc.

Under Bernie's plan, one of the funding proposals is a 4% flat tax on income. The average income in this country is around $57K. So...4% of $57K = $2,280.

Now, we know that the average worker spends $5K on their health care.

So is $5,000 > or < $2,280?

And it's not just individuals who save...businesses do too. Remember when I said the business pays an average of $15K/employee? Well, for a business of 50 employees, that's $750,000. Under Bernie's plan, one of the funding mechanisms is that businesses would instead pay 7.5% of their income -not revenues, but income- instead. Now, the average income for a business of 50 employees is about $100K. So, 7.5% of $100K is just $7,500. Is $7,500 > or < $750,000?

So since the business now saves $742,500 a year, it can use that money to give every one of its 50 employees a $14,000 raise, if it chooses.

 

[LV426]

your revolution isn't happening, doh-tard.

Well, it might happen...and if it does, you gotta get on board otherwise you'll be left behind.

 

[Jack]

Thanks...I'm good... Hope you're well too

I saw it quite a few years ago. It's funny.
MM is running around some Hospital in Britain looking for the place to pay. He runs into a couple that just had a baby and asks 'How much did it cost?'. They look at him like he's somebody from Mars. After pressing them about 'cost', they finally tell him 'It's free'. MM finally finds the Bursars Office. MM demands to know how much things cost, ... the Bursar tells him that his only job is to give people money if they need a Taxi or a Bus to take them home. hahahahahahahahahah

The end of the film is MM taking these 9/11 Rescue Workers that have severe illnesses to Guantanamo, where the Prisoners get 'free health care'. They are turned away and end up in Cuba. One of the last scenes is this woman that pays $100 for these 'Inhalers' that she needs just to live, going to this Cuban Pharmacy. They are all looked at and given a diagnosis. The woman asks about these 'Inhalers', ... she's told they cost 50 cents. hahahahahahahahahaha Her mouth falls open in disbelief. (Hopefully, she's a Republican that hates socialized medicine).

Anyway, it's an interesting and humorous movie. Educational, even if there is a 'progressive' slant to it.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Well, I don't think you can necessarily separate the two. People's income is directly related to trade policies. You can't really talk about one without the other. Pooling together everyone's income in order to have access to healthcare that is free at the point of service saves everyone money, including businesses.

The average business pays an average of $15K per year per employee to sponsor coverage, with the employee paying an average of $5K.

Any tax increase for M4A is more than offset by the need to no longer pay deductibles, premiums, copays, coinsurance, drug costs, hospitals, ambulance rides, etc.

Under Bernie's plan, one of the funding proposals is a 4% flat tax on income. The average income in this country is around $57K. So...4% of $57K = $2,280.

Now, we know that the average worker spends $5K on their health care.

So is $5,000 > or < $2,280?

And it's not just individuals who save...businesses do too. Remember when I said the business pays an average of $15K/employee? Well, for a business of 50 employees, that's $750,000. Under Bernie's plan, one of the funding mechanisms is that businesses would instead pay 7.5% of their income -not revenues, but income- instead. Now, the average income for a business of 50 employees is about $100K. So, 7.5% of $100K is just $7,500. Is $7,500 > or < $750,000?

So since the business now saves $742,500 a year, it can use that money to give every one of its 50 employees a $14,000 raise, if it chooses.

of course you can separate the two, idiotstick. you just don't want to.

in fact, you posture about like an idiot pretending totalitarianism is the panacea to every problem.

 

[Jack]

Leading to socialist Germany starting the two largest, deadliest, most destructive wars in world history.

Proving that socialism is based on racism, ... and that socialism is just the modern word for monarchy.

 

[TTQ64]

Do you understand how proposals become law?

Are you familiar with the rules of the Senate?

Are you aware of something called the filibuster and the majority required to block one?

As long as there are more than 34 Republicans or members of either party in the Senate who oppose ol' BS's proposals, there will not be enough votes to pass them.

It's very simple.

Then vote in people who support the proposal instead of voting for the same people who DONT WANT IT.

It's very simple.

 

[TTQ64]

We tried BoThSiDeS with Obama and Clinton. All it did was make Conservatives more intransigent. In what world would the Republicans, who just covered for Trump and defended the illegitimate attacks against Joe Biden, ever want to work with Democrats?

Are we all suffering amnesia when it comes to the last 10 years?

Standing Ovation!

They keep thinking republicans are going to do the right thing.

I'd rather they just admit THEY DON'T LIKE THE POLICY.

They should vote republican

 

[LV426]

you're winning move is off limits for your ideological constraints

No it isn't. Medicare for All has a higher approval rating than Trump. Progressives were dragged along with Clinton, and she lost. So why repeat the same mistakes? Have we learned nothing?

Moderation, by definition isn't excitement or enthusiasm...the only way to beat Trump is to get voters excited and enthusiastic which increases turnout.

be more anti-globalist. that's why trump won. and rejecting globalism, globalism being the ultimate triumph of corporatism, should be in line with your stated values, but why isn't it in reality?

I think you're just using "globalism" here to be a nebulous, wide-parameter thing. Trump is a globalist. Literally, he's a globalist as he has businesses all over the world who license his brand to put on their buildings. So while you say Trump isn't a globalist, I ask why then does he care so much about his global brand? Going so far as to use it to extort things from foreign countries?

oh because you're all about totalitarianism? that sounds right.

It's hard to imagine how Medicare for All or free public colleges are "totalitarianism" and abusing your authority to meddle in the affairs of the court system to give your guy a break there, isn't.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

No it isn't. Medicare for All has a higher approval rating than Trump. Progressives were dragged along with Clinton, and she lost. So why repeat the same mistakes? Have we learned nothing?

Moderation, by definition isn't excitement or enthusiasm...the only way to beat Trump is to get voters excited and enthusiastic which increases turnout.





I think you're just using "globalism" here to be a nebulous, wide-parameter thing. Trump is a globalist. Literally, he's a globalist as he has businesses all over the world who license his brand to put on their buildings. So while you say Trump isn't a globalist, I ask why then does he care so much about his global brand? Going so far as to use it to extort things from foreign countries?




It's hard to imagine how Medicare for All or free public colleges are "totalitarianism" and abusing your authority to meddle in the affairs of the court system to give your guy a break there, isn't.

medicare for all isn't your winning move. anti-globalism is, and you have put it off limits

your misguided analysis of my usage of the word globalism is irrelevant, and being thus, shall remain unaddressed at this juncture.

 

[TOP]

I saw it quite a few years ago. It's funny.
MM is running around some Hospital in Britain looking for the place to pay. He runs into a couple that just had a baby and asks 'How much did it cost?'. They look at him like he's somebody from Mars. After pressing them about 'cost', they finally tell him 'It's free'. MM finally finds the Bursars Office. MM demands to know how much things cost, ... the Bursar tells him that his only job is to give people money if they need a Taxi or a Bus to take them home. hahahahahahahahahah

The end of the film is MM taking these 9/11 Rescue Workers that have severe illnesses to Guantanamo, where the Prisoners get 'free health care'. They are turned away and end up in Cuba. One of the last scenes is this woman that pays $100 for these 'Inhalers' that she needs just to live, going to this Cuban Pharmacy. They are all looked at and given a diagnosis. The woman asks about these 'Inhalers', ... she's told they cost 50 cents. hahahahahahahahahaha Her mouth falls open in disbelief. (Hopefully, she's a Republican that hates socialized medicine).

Anyway, it's an interesting and humorous movie. Educational, even if there is a 'progressive' slant to it.

I'm glad you "enjoyed" it

 

[TTQ64]

Right, so my point is that it doesn't matter who the Democratic nominee is, Conservatives won't work with them. They won't work with Biden, Sanders, Warren, Buttigieg, Klobuchar...it doesn't matter because anyone who isn't a Conservative and/or Republican is illegitimate to Conservatives and Republicans. That's just what they've been spoon-feeding their base since 1980.

Thing is, though, we don't need those voters in order to win elections. People talk about, OOOO the Dems should nominate a candidate who will get Trump voters, and I say that's dumb because it's much harder to convince someone to vote for you who thinks you're illegitimate, than it is to convince someone who didn't vote to come out and vote for Medicare for All. It's an easier conversation to have there.

Non-voters (95 million in 2016) are who Democrats should be fighting for, not Trump voters who act in bad faith. If Democrats expanded the voter participation by just 5%, they'd win in a landslide. You aren't going to increase voter participation by running on small ideas or the same tired, hollow, empty promise of "bipartisanship". You can't have bipartisanship when one side sees the other as illegitimate.

A moderate is a sure fire way to guarantee a loss to Trump. Like, if Buttigieg gets up there on the debate stage and says something generic and hollow like "the freedom of the flag is what lifts the spirit of democracy", and Trump responds by making a fart sound with his mouth and then calls Buttigieg a "f*g", followed by Trump winning.

But Trump is afraid of Bernie because he knows Bernie doesn't mince words.

Plus, Brooklyn > Queens every time.

You win the internet today!


I said it before, it baffles me that a so called Dem would suggest courting republican voters to beat dump?

 

[Earl]

Go Bernie, go.