Biden Says He Has Authority to Challenge Debt Limit

Into the Night said:
Reasonably accurate numbers.

Trump reduced spending from what it otherwise would have been during the first few years. He also reduced regulations and programs that were strangling business activity. In 2020, Democrats started the Covid welfare programs, increasing spending to obscene levels and implementing more communism. All this occurred while Democrats were shutting down businesses and imposing stupid restrictions on businesses deemed 'necessary'.

You will also note the deficit went way up during that time too.
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And the debt increased by $7.8 trillion in four years. Fiscally irresponsible.
 
Jarod said:
Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5.
The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
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None of this requires Congress to borrow money.
 
Into the Night said:
Yes it is. Congress keeps borrowing more and more. What does this have to do with Trump?
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He proposed the budget and signed it when passed by Congress. He increased unemployment benefits by $600 a week by executive order and signed the $2.2 trillion CARES ACT which gave everybody stimulus checks.

As the old saying goes, "Democrats tax and spend and Republicans borrow and spend." Both are bankrupting the country.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
I did. Maybe you can get a six-year-old to explain it to you because you clearly don't grasp the adult explanation...
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No you DID NOT.

What mechanism would STOP Trump, in a next admin of just spending past the new debt ceiling and demanding they just raise it?

Cite me the exact mechanism that would bind and stop him so it could not be done. Trump had 3 prior debt ceilings he completely ignored and blew through. What forces him not to do so next time?
 
QP! said:
No you DID NOT.

What mechanism would STOP Trump, in a next admin of just spending past the new debt ceiling and demanding they just raise it?

Cite me the exact mechanism that would bind and stop him so it could not be done. Trump had 3 prior debt ceilings he completely ignored and blew through. What forces him not to do so next time?
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Who gives a shit? That's a hypothetical. Right now, the question on the table for the looming debt ceiling crisis is Should spending limits be included in the bill? The Republican position is "Yes" and they want to discuss and compromise on that. The Democrat position is "No" and they are refusing to discuss or compromise on it.

THAT is the issue de jour, not some coulda, woulda, shoulda, Trump might do or whatever hypothetical. But you can't get that through your impenetrably thick skull. I could care less what Trump did. That's in the past. What the next administration, or even the current one, might do after the debt ceiling is raised is a hypothetical that no one can answer with certainty. Biden might well spend to the new limit then demand it be raised. So, the question is really moot in the present.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Who gives a shit? That's a hypothetical. Right now, the question on the table for the looming debt ceiling crisis is Should spending limits be included in the bill? The Republican position is "Yes" and they want to discuss and compromise on that. The Democrat position is "No" and they are refusing to discuss or compromise on it.

THAT is the issue de jour, not some coulda, woulda, shoulda, Trump might do or whatever hypothetical. But you can't get that through your impenetrably thick skull. I could care less what Trump did. That's in the past. What the next administration, or even the current one, might do after the debt ceiling is raised is a hypothetical that no one can answer with certainty. Biden might well spend to the new limit then demand it be raised. So, the question is really moot in the present.
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You are just a simpleton.

It is not a hypothetical as Trump or the person does not matter.

I am saying that there is not CURRENTLY, nor was there in the past anything to stop any POTUS admin from just blowing through the debt ceiling.

So now you say 'but what if we lower the debt ceiling' as if that is magic. That somehow the same debt ceiling they blew through when higher will now constrain them as you lowered it.


Put Trump aside and regardless of who has the WH next, what stops them simply blowing thru the debt celling limit and then demanding the Congress just vote to raise it?

If you cannot answer that question you are playing games. They have done exactly that for 100 years. that is not the hypothetical. The hypothetical is imaging Trump or who is next won't do it.
 
QP! said:
You are just a simpleton.

It is not a hypothetical as Trump or the person does not matter.

I am saying that there is not CURRENTLY, nor was there in the past anything to stop any POTUS admin from just blowing through the debt ceiling.

So now you say 'but what if we lower the debt ceiling' as if that is magic. That somehow the same debt ceiling they blew through when higher will now constrain them as you lowered it.


Put Trump aside and regardless of who has the WH next, what stops them simply blowing thru the debt celling limit and then demanding the Congress just vote to raise it?

If you cannot answer that question you are playing games. They have done exactly that for 100 years. that is not the hypothetical. The hypothetical is imaging Trump or who is next won't do it.
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All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-1/section-7/clause-1/origination-clause

The President can only spend what Congress, and specifically the House, puts into legislation. A President does have some ability to move money around that has been authorized, but cannot spend what isn't authorized by Congress.
 
Phantasmal said:
It’s like all issues, the Founding Fathers never realized there would be a group of idiots that would default on our debt. They trusted all politicians would be honorable Americans, so erroneously, they didn’t set up provisions to rectify this type of stupidity.
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Not even close. The Founders set up the country the way they did because they knew men are NOT to be trusted.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-1/section-7/clause-1/origination-clause

The President can only spend what Congress, and specifically the House, puts into legislation. A President does have some ability to move money around that has been authorized, but cannot spend what isn't authorized by Congress.
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Yes. Thank you making my point.

As i have stated, our ENTIRE history is one of POTUS Administrations, along with Congress just blowing through the debt ceiling as COngress seems to entirely ignore the Debt Ceiling when setting their budgets to enact the POTUS agenda, knowing the Potus can just ask them to raise the debt ceiling after the fact.

That is REALITY.

What is the HYPOTHETICAL is this notion that you are pushing that by simply lowering the debt ceiling now, suddenly the next POTUS and Congress will change their behaviour. That the key to keeping Trump, in his 2016 administration from blowing through the debt ceiling 3 times was to LOWER IT. And like magic, Trump would have said 'well i was prepared to blow thru a higher Debt Ceiling but not a lower one'.


This is where your brain denies any semblance of logic as NOTHING you have said curtails the past behaviour. There is nothing to bind Trump (or any other POTUS) in 2024 who gets in, with a friendly COngress from blowing thru it again and just demanding it be raised.


You say i am wrong but the one thing you will NOT do, is present a single thing that would bind and prevent that happening in the next admin in 2024.

That is because you know you are wrong. You know you got nothing.
 
Jarod said:
Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5.
The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
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nothing there shows what you said. I see 'authorized by law' and I see 'shall have power'...............by appropriate legislation..................but I see nothing that mandates or forces congress to pay it's bills, nor do I see anything that allows the executive to bypass the congress........

thank you for proving that you don't know the Constitution and that I was right.
 
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