Boston is not the first time that police overreacted

Well, wait a minute, are you guys (DH and Grind) saying that this video is okay? I understand going door to door, but forcing everyone out of the house with their hands over their heads, at gunpoint , and making them run down the street while yelling at them is okay? I was concerned about a hostage situation, and I can see door to door, but wtf, if someone answers and says, yeah they're not here, why is what happened in that video necessary? I would not be okay with that. I would not be okay with that kind of firepower in my home. Was this something they did at every house or was there something special about this house?

I have no idea if what they did at that house was any different from any other house and, while I don't know that it was necessary for the police to conduct themselves as they did, whether the police violated the Constitution is a question independent of the manner in which the searches were conducted. Either the searches were permissible or they weren't.

I don't see the relevance of the firepower or the conduct of the police in carrying out the searches. How they conducted themselves is an entirely separate issue to me. If the searches were kosher it doesn't matter if two unarmed police officers conducted them or eleventy twelve officers with M-4s conducted them, the infringement is the same.

I hadn't seen the video before my earlier comments and having thought on it for a while I don't know what I think on the constitutonality point. Upon reflection, I'd probably come down on the unconstitutional side of things if forced to choose but that has little to do with the manner of the search and more to do with the fact that it should not be routine for the police to be able to cordon of a large area and search anywhere within it just because a criminal might be within it.
 
I have no idea if what they did at that house was any different from any other house and, while I don't know that it was necessary for the police to conduct themselves as they did, whether the police violated the Constitution is a question independent of the manner in which the searches were conducted. Either the searches were permissible or they weren't.

I don't see the relevance of the firepower or the conduct of the police in carrying out the searches. How they conducted themselves is an entirely separate issue to me. If the searches were kosher it doesn't matter if two unarmed police officers conducted them or eleventy twelve officers with M-4s conducted them, the infringement is the same.

I hadn't seen the video before my earlier comments and having thought on it for a while I don't know what I think on the constitutonality point. Upon reflection, I'd probably come down on the unconstitutional side of things if forced to choose but that has little to do with the manner of the search and more to do with the fact that it should not be routine for the police to be able to cordon of a large area and search anywhere within it just because a criminal might be within it.

Well the more guns there are the more chance of one going off, and I would not want that kind of firepower in my house while being told to shut up and put my hands over my head just because there was a criminal loose. I think that is pretty severe. I understand what you are saying, I have a more emotional reaction I guess.
 
I remember this because I had an aunt living in the area. We debated whether this was right or wrong, she said right, I said wrong. I was shocked that anyone took the cops' side in this.

I can't for the life of me see how anyone could defend what the police did here. Do you know what happened to the guy who told the fire brigade to not put out the flames?
 
Well, wait a minute, are you guys (DH and Grind) saying that this video is okay? I understand going door to door, but forcing everyone out of the house with their hands over their heads, at gunpoint , and making them run down the street while yelling at them is okay? I was concerned about a hostage situation, and I can see door to door, but wtf, if someone answers and says, yeah they're not here, why is what happened in that video necessary? I would not be okay with that. I would not be okay with that kind of firepower in my home. Was this something they did at every house or was there something special about this house?

no i said that stuff before the sty video. That stuff isn't ok. but that may not be the full story. A lot of times cops will try to get people complacent and people will just step aside. I wonder if it would have gone down different if the guy stood his ground and said he does not consent to them being in his house.
 
no i said that stuff before the sty video. That stuff isn't ok. but that may not be the full story. A lot of times cops will try to get people complacent and people will just step aside. I wonder if it would have gone down different if the guy stood his ground and said he does not consent to them being in his house.

Right, we are on the same page then.
 
I can't for the life of me see how anyone could defend what the police did here. Do you know what happened to the guy who told the fire brigade to not put out the flames?

Probably nothing. I don't remember that anyone was charged with a criminal act. Bet that wouldn't have been the case if the majority of MOVE was Caucasian.
 
I would call hundreds of police, SWAT teams and National Guard with armoured personnel carriers, closedown of the public transport systems and businesses an over reaction. Considering that we have had many bombings in mainland Britain, I have never see anything like that over here.

But then; we did catch then, didn't we! :shesh:
 
people in boston and surrounding areas were dragged out of their homes at gun point and had their homes illegally searched. About as clear a violation of the 4th Amendment if there ever was one. If people consider that environment as being free, then we've already lost freedom and those people are brain dead. what kind of freedom does one have when the authorities can act against the constitution with impunity?

"...dragged out of their homes..."

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
 
The MOVE bombing happened in Philadelphia not LA. I would say that practically closing a city down for two days is an overreaction.

My Iraqi friend has a son who got a scholarship to go to Brown University and has now married and lives in Boston about five minutes walking distance from the bombing.

Boston was never "shut down" for two days.
You are a fucking retard who does not have a fucking clue what you are talking about.
 
Yup.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=2LrbsUVSVl8&desktop_uri=/watch?v=2LrbsUVSVl8

I'm thinking of a saying.
Something about trading liberty for order and deserving neither.

You are willing to surrender liberty for security.

You deserve neither.

And how do you know that all those involved in having their homes searched felt they were giving up their liberty and instead were attempting to help find the missing bomber.
If there were so many that felt their liberties were violated, then why are there bigger complaints, instead of a few that just want their Andy Warhol moment.
 
Wonder how many people have heard of the MOVE bombing? Police fired an astonishing 10,000 rounds of ammunition into that house while enforcing warrants that named only three MOVE members for misdemeanour charges. By the time that the fire was brought under control, 11 people were killed, 250 people were left homeless, and 61 houses were destroyed

PHILADELPHIA AND THE MOVE BOMBING

MOVE

Founded in the early 1970s, the MOVE organization was the brainchild of an idealistic social worker named Donald Glassey and a man named Vincent Leaphart. The name of the organization actually stood for nothing, and Leaphart and his followers espoused a back-to-nature retreat from the technology that they believed was ruining civilization. MOVE members were not known for much prior to 1977. During that year and into 1978, its members confronted the administration of former mayor Frank Rizzo. After six hundred police surrounded a MOVE commune, shots were exchanged between the police and commune members. One officer was killed and several others wounded. A dozen MOVE members were arrested on weapons and murder charges, and the movement spread out to other communes in the city. The group living at the Osage Avenue commune allegedly engaged in drug dealing, using the profits to purchase guns and explosives. Many of the members living there were children of the MOVE members imprisoned after the 1978 shootout. The stage for a second confrontation of authorities was set in the eighteen months prior to May 1985, when MOVE members in the Osage Avenue commune fortified the house and threatened the neighbors.

Confrontation

Because of their previous experience with MOVE in 1978, city officials took a vastly different approach in their efforts to evict the cult members from Osage Avenue. They evacuated more than five hundred people from a three-block area surrounding the cult house. When a last-minute appeal by boyhood friends of "defense minister" Conrad Africa failed to draw the MOVE members out, police began their siege. First, high-pressure water jets were used in an unsuccessful attempt to dislodge a steel-reinforced bunker on the roof of the building that allowed the cult members a clear field of fire over Osage Avenue. MOVE members and police then engaged in a ninety-minute gunfight. An attempt to enter the building by breaking through a cellar wall failed when MOVE members became aware of the attempt and set up an ambush, successfully fighting off the Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team.

Air Attack

A decision was finally made to attack the roof bunker with explosives. A police helicopter dropped two pounds of DuPont Tovex TR-2, a nonincendiary blasting agent, onto the bunker. About twenty minutes later, flames were visible on the roof. Rather than once again turning on the water cannons, a decision was apparently reached to allow the fire to burn in an attempt to force the MOVE members out. By the time firefighters eventually responded, the roof collapsed and the entire building was in flames. This tragic decision was only the beginning of what turned out to be a monumental misjudgment by city officials.

Conflagration

Firefighters soon learned that the fire was spreading in the neighborhood of row houses. Attempts to halt the fire were initially unsuccessful. Only two MOVE members were able to escape the flames, Ramona Africa and a thirteen-year-old boy, Birdie Africa. By the time that the fire was brought under control, 11 people were killed, 250 people were left homeless, and 61 houses were destroyed. The eleven dead included six adults and five children. After months of hearings into the tragedy, Philadelphia mayor Wilson Goode admitted that he and city officials made a mistake in handling the situation.

Source:


http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3468303095.html

I'll admit, I only read the title. Yet that is all I actually needed to read.....

The Police didn't know what they were dealing with.........you know and remember this right..........it just happened........

The people felt secure that an organized force had training to deal with a situation like that.

The un-organized idiots did not feel the same way. Maybe the militia could have taken control of this one. Maybe everyone with a snake on their yard flag could have stormed the street with their guns..............then thought about a plan to make sure you don't shoot your neighbor who is militia too..........then make sure you actually have a plan............then make sure you have a way to tell the current cops you are the militia.............then don't shoot everyone with a gun wanting to make a difference...........

Look.....Militia is cool and I get it......But in America life you have to have time to commit yourself 100% if you actually want an organized effort. Anyone who walked out of the house with a gun in hand would probably been shot.........This is just basic..
 
And how do you know that all those involved in having their homes searched felt they were giving up their liberty and instead were attempting to help find the missing bomber.
If there were so many that felt their liberties were violated, then why are there bigger complaints, instead of a few that just want their Andy Warhol moment.

The Government generally stages bombings only to surprise search homes for the things you don't want them to find.........
 
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