Broken Grading

[Jarod]

This reminds me of an old joke. Which ends with this:

We all know what B.S. is... an MS is "more of the same" and a PhD is just "piled higher and deeper"...

I always heard that a PhD is "Pretty heavy Drugs."

 

[Jarod]

My eldest runs a dog training business and travels the world, never went to college and still thanks me for the tools from her HS graduation. My youngest is going to graduate from College soon... the boy is gone.. , the middle daughter is an artist in a city with a crapton of crime...

I am proud of each and every one of them... and I miss the boy. I will probably go on a long stretch of sad songs tonight in the "what song are you listening to" thread.

I can't imagine losing a child. My heart is with you. I am sure you are proud of all of them, and just look what you gave the world.

 

[Jarod]

I thought this drives the point home well.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1993073390693838889

View: https://x.com/jonahdispatch/status/1993073390693838889?s=46&t=kOX31MjxS-IJnH5C6XWDGA

Do you really believe surgeons are graded on the physical skill involved in the type of surgery they are conducting? They have to be good at many things, like what type of surgery the patient might need, the approach or technique, if the surgery will help, and the physical skill at conducting the surgery itself.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The gist of the article is kids believe their grades should be based on effort, not mastery of the subject.

In this world kids think of school like a contract, “I put in the effort, now you owe me an A”.

This is how we get grade inflation. This is how you mask who may be having struggles. There’s an element of resilience that is taken away. Employers notice as well.

I go back to the fact we live in a global world and that this is occurring at our elite schools ultimately has an effect on all of us, as these are our country’s future leaders.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1992968702032072978

View: https://x.com/chronicle/status/1992968702032072978?s=46&t=kOX31MjxS-IJnH5C6XWDGA

Well, this is really flawed thinking on the part of the students.

How would a student know what effort is required to master a subject they know little or nothing about? That is why they are students. It's as absurd a proposition as having the student decide what should be taught.

What happens is that teachers, today, often have a lack of mastery of the material themselves. They may be able to follow the textbook or lesson plan but really lack any deeper knowledge of the subject than that. Thus, from the student perspective the teacher really isn't much better prepared than they are and the idea of their having equal footing to the teacher creeps in.

When such students get out in the "real" world, they find that the people they work for are actual masters at what they do--that's why they succeed in their business--and expect the now employee student to master the work process like they have. When the ex-student puts in half-assed effort and claims it's good enough or something and gets fired for it, they're shocked. It's cognitive dissidence. They thought growing up and in school that a decent effort, even if getting poor results, was sufficient for a full reward only to find that in the real world it is results that matter and that the effort required is a matter of mastery.

That is, say a skilled carpenter makes it look easy to build something. A young apprentice can watch that but cannot duplicate the results without far more time and effort put into getting them.

Results are what matters. Getting them easily is the result of mastery of the subject. Flailing around expending lots of energy and getting shit results should not be rewarded.

 

[Jake Starkey]

Not every teacher or instructor is good at the skill.

That is a fact. I had them at uni, so did you. I a couple of TA's that were fantastic, and certain tenured profs who were not.

It's not effort alone that should get the grade but the mastery of the as well.

 

[Yakuda]

Instead of the Alphabetic grading system, I think we should be more clear and have grades that describe one's level of mastery of the subject.

It could take one person years to become proficient at something another is proficient in a few months, but how long it takes should not matter once proficiency is attained.

So grades such as, "Master", "Proficient", "Approproching Proficiency" and "Novice".


Effort should not matter, what matters (in education) is the ability.

Sure effort might help one become a "Master" but we are judging mastery, not how hard you try.



In fact, you could grade ones ability to commit effort toward a task as being... "a Master at it", "proficient at it", ect...

I cant believe I'm actually agreeing with the unicorn lawyer

 

[archives]

The gist of the article is kids believe their grades should be based on effort, not mastery of the subject.

In this world kids think of school like a contract, “I put in the effort, now you owe me an A”.

This is how we get grade inflation. This is how you mask who may be having struggles. There’s an element of resilience that is taken away. Employers notice as well.

I go back to the fact we live in a global world and that this is occurring at our elite schools ultimately has an effect on all of us, as these are our country’s future leaders.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1992968702032072978

View: https://x.com/chronicle/status/1992968702032072978?s=46&t=kOX31MjxS-IJnH5C6XWDGA

It has always been that way, do your job, keep a clean nose, and it will turn out good, nothing new

 

[christiefan915]

Wow, my son’s story is polar opposite.
He didn’t bother to even try in h.s. Never did homework, wake up at 10:00 am normally and stroll over to school .
He planned on going to summer school every summer knowing he just had to show up and they’d push him to the next grade. Problem is there was no summer school after senior year. Me and the wife had to write papers to turn in for missed assignments during the entire year.
Eventually he went to aircraft mechanic training at University of Alaska while working part time as a plane mechanic. The work counted towards him getting FAA certification so he didn’t bother getting a degree.
Passed his certification and is miles ahead of me financially at the same age I was.
He’s married, has a nice house and loves his job.

You actually did his homework?

 

[christiefan915]

Congratulations, that is really awesome. It’s absolutely true that not every kid needs to be
College bound. You must be very proud.

I hope he explains this: "Me and the wife had to write papers to turn in for missed assignments during the entire year."

 

[Jake Starkey]

My brother who is a professor found out that one of his students, whose parents are my brother's friends, had been writing papers for him.

He flunked the students, and then he had a talk with the dad's employer.

 

[anonymoose]

You actually did his homework?

Me and the wife. Wrote papers, book reports, whatever it took to get him through graduation.

 

[anonymoose]

I hope he explains this: "Me and the wife had to write papers to turn in for missed assignments during the entire year."

What don’t you understand? We did it.

 

[evince]

Wow, my son’s story is polar opposite.
He didn’t bother to even try in h.s. Never did homework, wake up at 10:00 am normally and stroll over to school .
He planned on going to summer school every summer knowing he just had to show up and they’d push him to the next grade. Problem is there was no summer school after senior year. Me and the wife had to write papers to turn in for missed assignments during the entire year.
Eventually he went to aircraft mechanic training at University of Alaska while working part time as a plane mechanic. The work counted towards him getting FAA certification so he didn’t bother getting a degree.
Passed his certification and is miles ahead of me financially at the same age I was.
He’s married, has a nice house and loves his job.

Why didn’t you install a love of learning in him you failed parent?

Imagine what he could have done with that love of learning

Maybe his best life would have been even more fulfilling with even more knowledge