Broken Visas?

Damocles said:
I didn't say you did. It wasn't an accusation, it was an observation. At least we know who these people are, complete with background checks, pictures, and fingerprints.
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Maybe. Maybe this program they are talking about is something else. I'm not an intelligence official and I don't know. What I do know, is that this adminstration has done jack to prevent another one, and you know it too, as does anyone who is honest. We're sitting ducks. Now, I don't buy into the fear mongering so that I'm running around screaming "take my rights, just protect me". I'm not scared that I'm going to die. But i feel like, someday soon, I'm going to see a lot of other people die. And this shit is so criminally incompetent that is going on, that I think someone should hang for it.
 
Darla said:
This is from the new National Intelligence Estimate, the one that has let us know just how great bush's "War On Terror" is coming along. This, which is one of the "key findings" really jumped out at me:

The group will bolster its efforts to position operatives inside U.S. borders. In public statements, U.S. officials have expressed concern about the ease with which people can enter the United States through Europe because of a program that allows most Europeans to enter without visas.

The ease with which people can enter the Us through Europe. And yet, one of the major reasons, always given, for building a fence, or closing our borders, with MEXICO, is "national security". Our security. I have yet to hear one of the people who are so concerned with our Mexican border risking our security, even mention this European program that allows people to come from Europe with no visas. I did not even know about it.

Where are the terrorist attacks taking place? Cancun? No. Europe. And yet, no concern on the part of the "broken borders" crowd about this, while they pound the idea into the American people that it is the Mexican border that poses this danger.

Curious.
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You know what's always bothered me about the xenophobe's border security debate? About building a wall on the southern border?

Since 9/11, the fans of a Southern Wall, have pointed to the potential for terrorists sneaking across the border.

I mean, are "terrorists" really going to trek across the mexican desert to get into the United States? That would be stupid. If anything, I think they would come here legally, on a tourist visa. And probably through canada. A arab man won't raise any eyebrows in canada, because they are a melting pot country, like us.
 
Cypress said:
You know what's always bothered me about the xenophobe's border security debate? About building a wall on the southern border?

Since 9/11, the fans of a Southern Wall, have pointed to the potential for terrorists sneaking across the border.

I mean, are "terrorists" really going to trek across the mexican desert to get into the United States? That would be stupid. If anything, I think they would come here legally, on a tourist visa. And probably through canada. A arab man won't raise any eyebrows in canada, because they are a melting pot country, like us.
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Exactly. I don't think we have a terrorist thread on our southern border. So I'd like to see this taken out of the debate. It's racist bs. Let's get the racists out of the debate, and then we can get to the clear merits of the matter. And there are merits there.
 
Not a terrorist threat on our southern border ? well no more so than on any other border. I don't think that organized terrorists will all take a plane route directly from their own country to get here. Kinda obvious.
With that said I am not paraniod about terrorism, but it does exist and we should take reasonable measures to keep em out on ALL borders.
 
uscitizen said:
Not a terrorist threat on our southern border ? well no more so than on any other border. I don't think that organized terrorists will all take a plane route directly from their own country to get here. Kinda obvious.
With that said I am not paraniod about terrorism, but it does exist and we should take reasonable measures to keep em out on ALL borders.
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Isn't that exactly how the 9/11 terrorists got here? By plane? I thought so, but I don't remember all the details.
 
Cypress said:
You know what's always bothered me about the xenophobe's border security debate? About building a wall on the southern border?

Since 9/11, the fans of a Southern Wall, have pointed to the potential for terrorists sneaking across the border.

I mean, are "terrorists" really going to trek across the mexican desert to get into the United States? That would be stupid. If anything, I think they would come here legally, on a tourist visa. And probably through canada. A arab man won't raise any eyebrows in canada, because they are a melting pot country, like us.
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No, they likely would come with the cash to use the mules to get them accross the border, as well (usually) as a job and a place to live for a while when they get here. They are even as sophisticated to spread it out and not just leave them in one area nowadays.

It is one of the reasons we get many OTMs from nations such as China crossing the border in the South.
 
uscitizen said:
Not a terrorist threat on our southern border ? well no more so than on any other border. I don't think that organized terrorists will all take a plane route directly from their own country to get here. Kinda obvious.
With that said I am not paraniod about terrorism, but it does exist and we should take reasonable measures to keep em out on ALL borders.
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I can't think of a single terrorist attack by foreigners, either here or in europe, that involved muslims sneaking across any borders.

I think they were either all home-grown, or they got into the countries legally on tourist or student visas.
 
Cypress said:
I can't think of a single terrorist attack by foreigners, either here or in europe, that involved muslims sneaking across any borders.

I think they were either all home-grown, or they got into the countries legally on tourist or student visas.
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So the ones captured attempting to cross from Canada were copascetic except for the bomb in their car?
 
Damocles said:
So the ones captured attempting to cross from Canada were copascetic except for the bomb in their car?
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Again, they were coming here legally. Crossing at a border checkpoint, is not "sneaking" in. Its legally coming in.

They weren't sneaking across the border in a sureptitious way, were they? Wouldn't that be why we need a "border wall".
 
Cypress said:
Again, they were coming here legally. Crossing at a border checkpoint, is not "sneaking" in. Its legally coming in.

They weren't sneaking across the border in a sureptitious way, were they? Wouldn't that be why we need a "border wall".
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That would depend, it is not legal for people to cross that border without identification proving them to be Canadian Citizens unless they have passports. Did these people have passports? We know they weren't Canadian citizens.
 
Nowadays they have begun to require passports for Canadians as well as returning Americans. Of course they are so inefficient that they had to extend the deadline for the American Passports as they couldn't actually get them to them in a six month period...
 
Damocles said:
That would depend, it is not legal for people to cross that border without identification proving them to be Canadian Citizens unless they have passports. Did these people have passports? We know they weren't Canadian citizens.
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I assume they had passports, and were attempting to enter the US legally through a boder check point.

Because, from what I remember, it was sheer luck that the INS agent noticed something suspicious about their truck. It wasn't a "lack of passports" that triggered the suspicion.

so this was an attempt at a legal crossing. Not a sureptitious attempt to sneak across the border in unguarded areas.
 
uscitizen said:
Just because one mouse comes in while the front door is open does not mean all mice will come in that way.
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But, its so much easier to try to get in legally (tourist visas, student visas, legal border crossings), than to trek across miles of frozen canadian tundra, or mexican desert, and scaling some gigantic "border wall" to sneak in across unguarded aread. That's a pain in the ass, physically dangerous, and when you get here, you don't have any documentation proving you're here legally. Making it harder to get apartments, safe houses, and running afoul of law enforcement.

Why take all that hardship and risk? Its easier, and probably less risky just to try to get in through normal, legal channels.
 
Cypress said:
But, its so much easier to try to get in legally (tourist visas, student visas, legal border crossings), than to trek across miles of frozen canadian tundra, or mexican desert, and scaling some gigantic "border wall" to sneak in across unguarded aread. That's a pain in the ass, physically dangerous, and when you get here, you don't have any documentation proving you're here legally. Making it harder to get apartments, safe houses, and running afoul of law enforcement.

Why take all that hardship and risk? Its easier, and probably less risky just to try to get in through normal, legal channels.
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correct is it easier.
But if you come in with a pocket full of money......
You think those people living in caves in afganistan have an easy life ?
What appears difficult to us lazy Spoiled Americans is a walk in the park to others.
I guess you argument does not apply to the 11 mililion Mexicans that got here that way ?
 
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