Can Hillary cry her way back to the White House?
- Thread starter Onceler
- Start date
I actually think he's better positioned to win, what with the disgusting pig like sexism I saw in the media all week, none of which bothered bac, onceler, or any of the men here apparently. Shit. I should take a break for a couple of hours, I am fucking fuming.
But yeah, considering that the male pigs in the media will continue to slaughter her, with a full pass from many "liberal" men, we'd be better off with Obama, as far as chances of winning go.
That's almost the only policy reason, I would support Obama over clinton. He had the good judgement to know the war was a mistake. I do continue to stay pissed at hillary for not apologizing for her iraq vote.
However, once in the senate however, you can measure the difference in votes between clinton and obama in millimeters. They're pretty much the same. They're both corporate, NAFTA democrats. Throw Joe Biden in their with them.
And actually, on health care, Clinton's plan is far more progressive than obama's. So, I reject with extreme predjudice, the cult of hillary hatred that is based on things outside the policy realm.
Which is why I support Edwards. But, as pissed as I am at Hillary for her iraq vote, and her corporatist ways, I don't see obama or Biden being significantly different.
Darla - cool down. I don't expect you to read all of my posts on here, but sexism does actually bother me. I hated those "iron my shirt" idiots, even if they meant it as a stupid goof; it plays on those stereotypes, and is an inane mindset.
Toppy keeps talking about me being "intimidated by a strong woman," knowing nothing about me. I am surrounded by strong women in my life, and only exist at this point because of them. I would be truly excited about a woman candidate who I could throw my support behind.
I can't throw that support behind Clinton, because of reasons that I have articulated over & over again on this board, that have nothing to do with gender, race or favorite food. And I hate that once again, as happens in almost every election, something aside from one of the many issues that actually affect Americans may decide the race (and I'm not saying sexism doesn't affect Americans).
Toppy keeps talking about me being "intimidated by a strong woman," knowing nothing about me. I am surrounded by strong women in my life, and only exist at this point because of them. I would be truly excited about a woman candidate who I could throw my support behind.
I can't throw that support behind Clinton, because of reasons that I have articulated over & over again on this board, that have nothing to do with gender, race or favorite food. And I hate that once again, as happens in almost every election, something aside from one of the many issues that actually affect Americans may decide the race (and I'm not saying sexism doesn't affect Americans).
I need to take a break, I am too steamiing right now, I'll answer this later.
Whenever I have gotten furious, and not walked away for awhile, anywhere, I have lived to regret it. I need a break.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
The canard is to paint everyone who does not like Hillary as some kind of sexist when in fact there are a myriad of poilcy issues that engender genuine differences, even disrespect.
I see great differences in Hillary and Obama, first and foremost in their approach to problem-solving .. which led Hillary to make two monumentally failed votes that cost hundreds of thousands of lives.
There are different levels of "antiwar" voters and most Americans are mildly antiwar and only assume the mantel now because the Iraq war has proven to be a misreable disaster.
Consider this scenario .. the Bush Administration claims a US military boat was attacked by Iran.
I would expect more sound reasoning and research from Obama than I would Clinton who is beholden to the bidding of Israel, which would want the US to militarily engage Iran.
Some of us have children stuck in the Hell of Iraq.
Some of us get misty watching the faces of 19 and 20 year old soldiers dead for profit.
Voters can trust Hillary if they choose, but don't claim to be antiwar if we once again find ourselves mass-murdering innocent people for profit.
Fair enough. I agree with you more than anyone on the board; this is the 1st time that I can remember where we actually disagreed on something. I respect where you're coming from, but you are also applying some views to me that do not apply & lumping me in with people & positions that I do not agree with.
I'm pretty sure I've never said your opposition to hillary was sexist, my friend.
In the past few days, and indeed in the history of this board, I've often focused on the media and the punditry's cult of hillary hatred. I don't think I've projected that onto individuals on this board, to any extent.
I don't disagree with your points. I think Obama might make a better leader, might be more electable (than hillary), and might bring a freshness to DC that this country needs.
I'm not going to give Obama a pass however, strictly on policy positions. The difference policy wise between him and Hillary is nominal at best.
And in fact, I think Hillary has more progressive plans than him, on health care.
I think Obama might be better on civil right, though. So, it might be a wash, policy wise.
I don't think there can be any denying, that the cult of hillary hate is widespread and profound. Its even within the progressive activist movement. Freakin' Edwards supporters wouldn't even shake her hand, at a rally they saw her at. Its unfathomable to me.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I did not mean to suggest you accused me of sexism.
Why isn't Hillary hate of what she did to Iraq justified?
The problem may be the fact that you posted the Down column and agreed with it notwithstanding the obvious and overt sexist trappings.
Indeed, her iraq vote and inability to apologize for it, is something I continue to stay pissed at her for. A very valid reason.
What I'm refering to, and what I've been posting about this week, and before, is the cult of hillary hatred that goes beyond a policy position. There's no denying it. For years, the woman has been held to standards that men aren't: Her choice in clothing, her public "emotions"; her husband's sex affair; that she didn't "earn" her senate seat. And this week in particular, like the "crying" event (but not limited to that), I saw a sharp upsurge in the cult of hillary hatred. It's always bugged me. And Chris Mathews is the worst. The guy hates hillary. And its quite clear to me, it's a hatred that is not born of a policy disagreement. And I see it all over the media, and on the interwebs.
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Lao Tse
Verified User
Straight from the Ron Paul Newsletter! LOL. Some things are just true bro, and we all know it. Don't hate on the Paulster.
I don't think it's sexist to think that Hillary's tears were for the reasons that Dowd stated, and that my wife thought earlier today; it may be presumptuous, but it isn't sexist.
It's also a plain fact that the Clintons have now put themselves in a position of downplaying & arguing against hope, to an extent, which is one of the great ironies of all time in politics.
I also don't think Dowd is anti-feminist, but I realize that there is disagreement on that. A lot of people are just tired of the Clintons, regardless of which gender is running.
No it isn't. It was Dowd's title, but it is not sexist.
It's just as I thought w/ you; you don't know what sexism is.
No, not really. You don't understand anything about me, and never have. You're just a fool.
I could care less that Hillary is a woman; the only factor that has for me is that yeah, it actually would be cool to see the 1st woman President.
You're such a goofball. I wish you wouldn't post on my threads, because you add nothing.
Battleborne
Terminator
The only power Hillary has.............
is power over whimps like you...you flip flopped on Hillary when she was down and out ya bailed on her...when she won the NH primary you groveled over to her side again...You my friend (used loosely) are a coward and a fraud...at least try to be loyal to whom you cheer on...if they falter help them not bail and kiss the opponents ass...thats what y'all liberals do...quite apparent!
is power over whimps like you...you flip flopped on Hillary when she was down and out ya bailed on her...when she won the NH primary you groveled over to her side again...You my friend (used loosely) are a coward and a fraud...at least try to be loyal to whom you cheer on...if they falter help them not bail and kiss the opponents ass...thats what y'all liberals do...quite apparent!
You insult me if that's about me.
I am painting the actual sexists, as sexists.
You did notice there out and about didn't you?
Am I not allowed to mention them for some reason?
Actually, I think the title is sexist, I don’t remember seeing a title like that when Romney cried, do you? And I have read Dowd for years, she is an anti-feminist. She’s pretty much anti-everything. She is defined by what she is against, never by what she is for. Can you name something Maureen Dowd is for? She is very clever with words, and way too enamored with herself because of this.
Sitting on the NY Times op-ed page, she helps define the narrative. She had a big hand in casting Al Gore as the nerd that none of the girls wanted to date, in fact she started that. And W was the stud.
She had a big hand in nearly bringing down Bill Clinton. And she did it all over nonsense. Stupid, giggly, high school nonsense.
She’s not just anti-feminist. She’s an idiot.
Now, I never thought that you were a sexist Onceler, and I do not believe that do not like Hillary because she is a powerful woman. But I do think you have been carried away a little bit with the Hillary bashing. The war aside, she’s not as bad as all that and Obama is not as great as all that.
Factor the war in, and you change the scenario, but as I asked bac, I’ll ask you, are the things people like Matthews have been saying about her, about the war Onceler? No, they are about her being a her.