Capitalism is theft

[Lowaicue]

No, my reality is the reality we all live in... you live in a fantasy land that is split from reality, therefore, it appears to you that my reality is my own.

This is getting REALLY boring, morons! See... the idea on a message board is, someone posts a topic and people interject their opinions and talk about the topic. It seems you fuckwits don't comprehend how this works. You seem to think a posted thread topic means an opportunity for you to act like you are in 7th grade, and see who can come up with the most immature juvenile snipe to lob at whoever you happen to disagree with politically. Is it really that difficult to discuss and debate what you morons supposedly believe in? Apparently, it is.

....amd, of course, you NEVER do that.... huh?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

....amd, of course, you NEVER do that.... huh?

Nope. I don't think I have ever entered a thread and posted something totally unrelated to the topic, just to insult someone. I am a smart enough person to defend my ideas and debate whatever we're talking about, I don't need to act like a 7th grader. Now.... AFTER the thread has devolved into a shit throwing contest, I can lob shit with the best of them, and often have. But I generally try to respect the integrity of the thread topic, it's one of my pet peeves.

 

[wiseones2cents]

Wait a minute... where is the money coming from if there is no capitalism? You say, "we mine resources" ...okay, WHO mines them? Are they paid to do this? Seems like some capitalistic profit would have to be realized in order to pay people to mine, farm, manufacture, etc. And what incentive is there for increased production? Not profits, that doesn't exist in your imaginary non-capitalist world. Do people just do more labor and work for free, since it will ultimately benefit everyone? Is that how it's supposed to work in your dream world?

Where did the money come before their was capitalism?lol Where did the money come in Communist Russia?lol Your question is retarded.

Who mines? WE DO! Who pays them, the socialist government! Capitalistic profit?HAHAHHAHAHHAA

Are you saying Profit is a capitalistic concept?? NROTFLOL!!!

My GOD, no wonder the rich take advantage! There are so many dumb dumbs!!!

I think it may have something to do with the Capitalists that have indoctrinated you with their perception of Socialism. There are many types of Socialism. It does not necessarily mean everyone works for no pay. It means that ALL industry is owned by the Government which is owned by the people(as long as it is a democratic socialist system). The workers work and get paid and get raises like in capitalism, but there are no middle men.

No, monetary inflation is the product of countries printing money without anything to back it up.

No. Inflation was started this way. OK. I have 1000 ounces of GOLD(example), Each gold ounce represents $1. I use up those $1 paper currency. I need more, but dont have any more GOLD. I double the amount of dollars in circulation. Now I have 2000 $1 bills(But the actual cost of the bills has been reduced to 50 cents. SO now you need two bills to buy something that is a dollar. That's inflation.

Basically a scam developed for the rich to remain rich.

Now the currency is not dependent on GOLD but on other valuables also(GDP) especially ores, minerals, lumber, oil, gas, ect....

That allows the President, Monarch, PM, ect....To increase the amount of dollars in circulation.

Well if you want to chortle like a pinhead, go for it... you have lots of pinhead chortlers here who will eat that shit up... you didn't disprove what I said, and it's the truth. Oh, you can obtain production through enslaving people and forcing them to work... but in a free capitalist society like we have, production REQUIRES capitalism, and doesn't work without it.

If I go in my backyard and chop down a tree and use it to make a Table. I have just produced a table. I have not used capitalism, I have not used slavery. Just what has been given to us by GOD, and my skill and labor.

Again... you can strip everyone of freedom and enslave them to work for the state... is THAT what you think we need to do in America?

I think you perception of socialism is skewed thanks to indoctrination by capitalists. Its like when capitalist show other countries? They usually show the poorest sections of the country so Americans feel more wealthier and the lie is believed.

For the record... The Soviet Union's economy collapsed, after about 40 years of dismal results... IT DIDN'T WORK!

Again more lies and brainwashing indoctrination. Not only were the world wars responsible for sinking communist USSR? It also sunk Capitalist Europe. Therefore if the wars had been on American soil? American capitalism would have died and USSR socialism would have thrived. AMericas survived because its economic infastructure was untouched. And Europe took all their gold reserves and transferred it to America as a result.

Socialism and Communism NEVER work! The reason is, there is no motivation to be productive. You earn exactly the same whether you produce just enough or go above and beyond the call... so people tend to do just enough... it's human nature. In a capitalist free enterprise model, the 'producer' is paid according to production, incentives and bonuses are awarded for increased production, and the 'producer' is motivated to produce more, to generate more profits, to gain more personal benefit.

B.S. My idea of socialism will out produce and communist or capitalist system. No motivation? To believe that in a socialist system you cannot reward the over achievers is a lie perpetuated by capitalists.

What you are describing is ONE form of socialism. There are many others. Not everyone has to have equal pay in socialism. Your thinking of American Unions.LOL

I know many people working under the capitalist system who do not get rewarded for their hard work. That only happens if you have a skill and are difficult to replace, and therefore have some leverage, so you demand more money.

I also know that when your a hard worker, all the slackers plan ways to get you fired because it makes them look bad. And they usually succeed. The actual owner is usually never around and the slackers are in cahoots with management. Plus if they see you are very smart, the management will be fearful you will take his job and will try to undermine you.

So the Government then becomes the "Richest 1%" and "Evil Greedy Capitalists" who control all the wealth and allow the poor to starve? Sorry, but you didn't get rid of capitalism, you just changed who gets to participate in capitalism and make profit... in your concept, individuals have no ladder to climb, no achievements to be accomplished, and no motivation to produce any more than the minimum necessary. Again, this is the reason Socialist Communism FAILS every time it has ever been tried. This is also why free market capitalism enabled a fledgling group of English colonies to become the greatest superpower ever known to mankind, in just over 200 years.

No because technically the money does not belong to the government. It belongs to the people. The government is hired by the people to manage it. Therefore there will be no 1%.

Again the USSR fell because of wars and debt as a result. Not because of socialism.

Barter is just a different form of capitalism. Trade of ANY kind, is capitalism.

I think the word is POPPYCOCK!!!!!!

Trade is trade. Capitalism is about getting a slice of the profit of every trade for doing absolutely nothing and using it for selfish purposes.

 

[wiseones2cents]

you wish.

I do not make wishes. I make things happen.

the OWS protestors are protesting the wrong people if they are looking for gov accountability. the gov doesn't work on wall street.

The gov today IS wall street. We have never seen so many wall street people in office.

so you're the moron that said 'lets hold the gov accountable' and walked over to wall street?

I'm the guy that started the war against corporate greed and the government that is their accomplice(partner in crime).

socialism is nothing about 'we the people'. socialist governments do everything possible to keep a two caste system, them and us.

There are many forms of socialism. You have been indoctrinated with the one the Russian Oligarchs practiced and that is not true socialism. It had more to do with cronyism. You only made more money if you were connected.

I told you, I was a mod on the other board. In fact, out of all the mods there, I was the token liberal moderator. you might remember me from jims reign as board owner over there.

The other boards I speak of are Christian boards I frequent today. What other board are you talking about? The AOL board(war on terror)? Where some of the people on this board came from?

 

[wiseones2cents]

Please keep your claims to yourself.
The protesters are fighting an uphill battle already,
They don't need mental midgets like you setting the parameters.

Boo Hoo. The little snot has been reduced to name calling.LOL

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

 

[Rune]

Boo Hoo. The little snot has been reduced to name calling.LOL

Ironic post is ironic.

 

[Alias]

Ironic post is ironic.

DUNE

 

[wiseones2cents]

Ironic post is ironic.

I only resort to name calling when called names first. Anyways let me know when you have something intelligent to offer.lol

I know your insults and opinions based on fairy tales makes you smarter, but your not.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Where did the money come before their was capitalism?lol Where did the money come in Communist Russia?lol Your question is retarded.

No, your answer is retarded. How about coming up with some examples of Communist/Socialist governments that didn't economically collapse and fail? I think you just made my fucking point for me! The money didn't come from anywhere, the people nearly starved to death.

Who mines? WE DO! Who pays them, the socialist government! Capitalistic profit?HAHAHHAHAHHAA

Are you saying Profit is a capitalistic concept?? NROTFLOL!!!

Okay, here's where your idea breaks down. In your example, the government is the 'capitalist' and the people have no economic power whatsoever. In your fucked-in-the-head way of thinking, that is a better way to go. The problem is, without capitalism willing to pay people based on productivity, you get dismal results. You have a mine full of minerals... you tell me my job is to mine the minerals for you, the government, and in return, you will give me food and shelter. I don't get better food and better shelter if I mine twice as much, therefore, you get the bare minimum I need to do, in order to be taken care of. Never mind the fact that I might not want to be a miner, I might want to be a piano player... that is not my option under your system, the government capitalists need me to work in the mines, so that's where I am stuck, regardless of whether I want to be there or not.

I think it may have something to do with the Capitalists that have indoctrinated you with their perception of Socialism. There are many types of Socialism. It does not necessarily mean everyone works for no pay. It means that ALL industry is owned by the Government which is owned by the people(as long as it is a democratic socialist system). The workers work and get paid and get raises like in capitalism, but there are no middle men.

Again (for the slow learners)... Communism and Socialism fail in practice because of the human condition. There is simply no motivation to succeed, there is no such thing as being "successful" in that system, everyone shares all, no one has more than another. Without this motivation, productivity is virtually non-existent, and over time, economic systems fail because of it. They've tried various methods to motivate the people more.... most notably, by threatening to kill you if you don't work, or you complain too much. Enslavement... that worked for a while... it's about the only way Communist Socialism can turn a profit.

And YES, there ARE middle men, whether you acknowledge them or not. The collective productions of the masses are sold by the government and a profit is made, but the wealth is not equally distributed among the masses, people are given just enough to survive, and the "ruling class" or those who control political power in your system, have access to all this profit, and they help themselves. In Communist/Socialist countries, the people in power within the government, live like royalty. They have everything they want, and live much better lifestyles than the typical citizen.

No. Inflation was started this way. OK. I have 1000 ounces of GOLD(example), Each gold ounce represents $1. I use up those $1 paper currency. I need more, but dont have any more GOLD. I double the amount of dollars in circulation. Now I have 2000 $1 bills(But the actual cost of the bills has been reduced to 50 cents. SO now you need two bills to buy something that is a dollar. That's inflation.

I know what the hell inflation is, and what causes it. When a country begins printing money it has nothing to back the value with, the value of the money is decreased. THIS CAUSES INFLATION!

Basically a scam developed for the rich to remain rich.

Basically you're a fucking idiot who doesn't understand monetizing.

If I go in my backyard and chop down a tree and use it to make a Table. I have just produced a table. I have not used capitalism, I have not used slavery. Just what has been given to us by GOD, and my skill and labor.

You have self-produced... we all do that daily... I produced a nice sized turd just a few minutes ago! Again... without enslaving people, production doesn't work without capitalism. If you chop down a tree and work to produce a table, could you justify giving that table to someone for free? Why not? You used resources which belong to us all, right? So why can't I have the table you built? Ah, you would like to obtain something in return for your effort and skill in building the table? Well... hate to break it to you, but you are a capitalist!

I think you perception of socialism is skewed thanks to indoctrination by capitalists. Its like when capitalist show other countries? They usually show the poorest sections of the country so Americans feel more wealthier and the lie is believed.

No, I am certain of what socialism is, as well as communism, and I am certain it has been tried many times and has always been a dismal failure. LMAO... so when we see pictures of downtown Havana, Cuba, streets full of 50s model American cars.... are those really old photos, or are Cubans just avid antique car collectors? Do you have any idea what the average median income is for the world population? It's about $8,000 per year. Our most destitute poverty stricken individuals live a better lifestyle than the wealthiest of some nations. The average poverty-level family in America, has 1.2 cars, a color TV, air conditioning, and over half have a cell phone.

There is no lie except for the one you are propagating here. Communism has failed over and over again, and is responsible for more death and misery than anything ever devised by man. Free market capitalism is the polar opposite.

Again more lies and brainwashing indoctrination. Not only were the world wars responsible for sinking communist USSR? It also sunk Capitalist Europe. Therefore if the wars had been on American soil? American capitalism would have died and USSR socialism would have thrived. AMericas survived because its economic infastructure was untouched. And Europe took all their gold reserves and transferred it to America as a result.

What the fuck are you talking about now? WWII wasn't fought in Russia, moron! The Russians were our allies against Germany! This all happened before the Soviet Union ever came to be! How can the world wars be responsible for killing something that hadn't even been born yet??? Bizarre!

It's at this point I have stopped responding to you, because I am now convinced you are an absolute idiot. Before, I thought you might just be misguided and clueless, but now I realize you are not retarded or ignorant, you're just an idiot. I can't do a thing about that... if you want to continue to believe Communist Socialism is the greatest system of government, that is your prerogative. I'm done!

 

[Rune]

I only resort to name calling when called names first. Anyways let me know when you have something intelligent to offer.lol

I know your insults and opinions based on fairy tales makes you smarter, but your not.

You are not worthy of any more than insults.
You have a false sense of superiority, especialy surprising considering your obvious severe learning disability,
and nearly catastrophic ignorance.

 

[wiseones2cents]

You are not worthy of any more than insults.
You have a false sense of superiority, especialy surprising considering your obvious severe learning disability,
and nearly catastrohic ignorance.

Even with all that? I still made you look stupid. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

The economy according to dune. It's an economy based on nothing. Call Seinfield. Quick! I think you may have a new idea for the show!

 

[Rune]

Even with all that? I still made you look stupid. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

The economy according to dune. It's an economy based on nothing. Call Seinfield. Quick! I think you may have a new idea for the show!

Every post you make makes you look stupid you fucking moron.
Every single person reading this forum except for you knows that the dollar is fiat currency.

 

[The Dude]

Dunb2cents you sound like a disgruntled. Urged flipper

 

[wiseones2cents]

No, your answer is retarded. How about coming up with some examples of Communist/Socialist governments that didn't economically collapse and fail? I think you just made my fucking point for me! The money didn't come from anywhere, the people nearly starved to death.

They starved because of the war fuck head. World war I, World War II and the war with Afghanistan! Russia and Canada are the richest countries in the world. The only thing they lack is year round growing seasons, though they have PLENTY of things to trade for them! Their is no logical way they could have collapsed. It is clear there is only one way. Corruption. They milked it dry and ran it into the ground. Then they moved their riches and invested it in the west welcomed the so called evil communists with open arms.

Okay, here's where your idea breaks down. In your example, the government is the 'capitalist' and the people have no economic power whatsoever. In your fucked-in-the-head way of thinking, that is a better way to go. The problem is, without capitalism willing to pay people based on productivity, you get dismal results. You have a mine full of minerals... you tell me my job is to mine the minerals for you, the government, and in return, you will give me food and shelter. I don't get better food and better shelter if I mine twice as much, therefore, you get the bare minimum I need to do, in order to be taken care of. Never mind the fact that I might not want to be a miner, I might want to be a piano player... that is not my option under your system, the government capitalists need me to work in the mines, so that's where I am stuck, regardless of whether I want to be there or not.

The gov is not the capitalist because the gov does not own the capital. The people do. The gov is hired by the people to manage the capital of the people. Understand?

As I stated before, your beliefs about Socialism are skewed. If you have money? You can do whatever you want in a socialist country.

Fuck are you that stupid? Most of Europe is turning to socialism and you can still be a piano player. The major capitalist thing about Europe is that they are still slave to capitalist debt. They are worried if Greece defaults, more European countries will default and the capitalists will lose their hold. Everyone will lose investments because economies are intertwined and that would be the end of capitalism!

Its not like in the old days the countries can go to war to collect debt. If they went to war with Greece, they wouldn't have many allies after that, or at least their charade will be exposed.

Again (for the slow learners)... Communism and Socialism fail in practice because of the human condition. There is simply no motivation to succeed, there is no such thing as being "successful" in that system, everyone shares all, no one has more than another. Without this motivation, productivity is virtually non-existent, and over time, economic systems fail because of it. They've tried various methods to motivate the people more.... most notably, by threatening to kill you if you don't work, or you complain too much. Enslavement... that worked for a while... it's about the only way Communist Socialism can turn a profit.

Then according to you Christianity would be a failure because of human condition. Correct? You are just repeating stupidity meant to fool the naive like you.You don't really understand what you are saying.

You are describing communism not socialism., They are not the same.

And YES, there ARE middle men, whether you acknowledge them or not. The collective productions of the masses are sold by the government and a profit is made, but the wealth is not equally distributed among the masses, people are given just enough to survive, and the "ruling class" or those who control political power in your system, have access to all this profit, and they help themselves. In Communist/Socialist countries, the people in power within the government, live like royalty. They have everything they want, and live much better lifestyles than the typical citizen.

They get paid for their services. Not to stand around like capitalists. You are talking about an oppressive communist system(rule of a few). Not a democratic socialist system(rule by the people).

I know what the hell inflation is, and what causes it. When a country begins printing money it has nothing to back the value with, the value of the money is decreased. THIS CAUSES INFLATION!

MY GOD THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT TOO BRIGHT!!! I think the capitalist keep the people stupid for this very purpose. That is why capitalist hoard information and only give it to those willing to pay top dollar! the rest remain ignorant of the system that robs them. The educated profit so say they play along.

Basically you're a fucking idiot who doesn't understand monetizing.

I've been debating people with alot more knowledge of economics and holding my ground, if not gaining.

You have self-produced... we all do that daily... I produced a nice sized turd just a few minutes ago! Again... without enslaving people, production doesn't work without capitalism. If you chop down a tree and work to produce a table, could you justify giving that table to someone for free? Why not? You used resources which belong to us all, right? So why can't I have the table you built? Ah, you would like to obtain something in return for your effort and skill in building the table? Well... hate to break it to you, but you are a capitalist!

The point is that I produced something without capitalism you fuck head! And I can either keep it for my self, or trace it for something of equal value to me. Again. Nothing to do with capitalism. Idiot!

No, I am certain of what socialism is, as well as communism, and I am certain it has been tried many times and has always been a dismal failure. LMAO... so when we see pictures of downtown Havana, Cuba, streets full of 50s model American cars.... are those really old photos, or are Cubans just avid antique car collectors? Do you have any idea what the average median income is for the world population? It's about $8,000 per year. Our most destitute poverty stricken individuals live a better lifestyle than the wealthiest of some nations. The average poverty-level family in America, has 1.2 cars, a color TV, air conditioning, and over half have a cell phone.

True socialism has never been tried. When they first devised it, they thought they people would embrace it freely. What they underestimated was the capitalist greed to prevent it from happening. Discredit and even kill socialist competition. They know it is far superior. The greedy capitalist wont give up their wealth without a fight.

There is no lie except for the one you are propagating here. Communism has failed over and over again, and is responsible for more death and misery than anything ever devised by man. Free market capitalism is the polar opposite.

That is a lie. Communism fell because of war and debt, not in spite of communism. Though remember. I'm a socialist.

Look at American capitalism! It is a gigantic failure! After they spent all the money they made on the world wars, they went down the tubes and the only thing keeping them afloat is having the international default currency,which means other countries have to prop up the dollar and foreign countries buying American debt, or it would have fell a long time ago!

What the fuck are you talking about now? WWII wasn't fought in Russia, moron! The Russians were our allies against Germany! This all happened before the Soviet Union ever came to be! How can the world wars be responsible for killing something that hadn't even been born yet??? Bizarre!

MY GOD! Can this guy be that fucking stupid? I think I was being generous when I said grade 3! WWII wasn't fought in Russia? Ever here of The Battle of Stalingrad??? The heaviest fighting was between Germany and Russia(IN RUSSIA)! Russia faced the bulk of the German military. Russians had the most people killed! And more Germans died fighting the Russians then anyone else!

Yes I know you fucking stupid Americans think you won the war single handed but the real people know that was a big fat fucking lie! The Russians were equally if not more instrumental in defeating the NAZIS.

It's at this point I have stopped responding to you, because I am now convinced you are an absolute idiot. Before, I thought you might just be misguided and clueless, but now I realize you are not retarded or ignorant, you're just an idiot. I can't do a thing about that... if you want to continue to believe Communist Socialism is the greatest system of government, that is your prerogative. I'm done!

Thank you! There is not much more of your stupidity I can take!!!!

 

[Rune]

If I go in my backyard and chop down a tree and use it to make a Table. I have just produced a table. I have not used capitalism, I have not used slavery. Just what has been given to us by GOD, and my skill and labor.

So God gave you an ax?
The tools you use to produce a table are your CAPITAL you ignoramus.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

The gov is not the capitalist because the gov does not own the capital. The people do. The gov is hired by the people to manage the capital of the people. Understand?

Nope, and I think you don't understand what capitalism or a capitalist is. This is one of the most idiotic statements that could be made, if you did. The government does indeed 'own' the capital, which is produced by the people. They capitalize on ownership by selling or trading the capital, theoretically, on behalf of all the people, but that isn't what happens. There is capitalistic profiteering, and the people in charge of distributing the capital, those who 'own' the capital, the cronies in the government.... THEY reap the rewards of the capitalist exchange. "The People" ...as in the general population... are kept just above poverty level.

You are describing communism not socialism., They are not the same.

Communism is the next progression from Socialism.

Fuck are you that stupid? Most of Europe is turning to socialism and you can still be a piano player. The major capitalist thing about Europe is that they are still slave to capitalist debt. They are worried if Greece defaults, more European countries will default and the capitalists will lose their hold. Everyone will lose investments because economies are intertwined and that would be the end of capitalism!

No, actually what is having to now occur across Europe, is widespread austerity measures to bring spending back in line with GDP. The diametric OPPOSITE of Socialism. The debt is not caused by capitalism, that is just plain silly, capitalism produces profits, remember? Oh, and by the way, you have still not explained how money is gained to run your society without capitalism. Your last argument was that government is the capitalist, and the people have no economic power whatsoever, are you sticking with that?

The point is that I produced something without capitalism you $%#@! And I can either keep it for my self, or trace it for something of equal value to me. Again. Nothing to do with capitalism. $%#!

Well if you don't just give it to someone who needs a table, you have engaged in capitalism. You produced a table from resources we all own, according to you, correct? So then, I must own at least some part of your table, right? Have you compensated me for that part? You used our resources, you aren't entitled to profit from using our resources, are you? Seems to me, you have to give me your table and take nothing in return. Meanwhile, I have this turd I produced, you want it?

True socialism has never been tried. When they first devised it, they thought they people would embrace it freely. What they underestimated was the capitalist greed to prevent it from happening. Discredit and even kill socialist competition. They know it is far superior. The greedy capitalist wont give up their wealth without a fight.

It's hard to say that every form of socialist government has been tried, how do you prove that? They continue to re-invent it and re-package it as new and improved... call it something different... Progressive Government! The problem is, it hardly ever works. Now.... there are SOME isolated Scandinavian countries, where people tend to not travel, there is no immigration to speak of, and the culture is very tight-knit and family oriented, and for these few isolated groups, a socialist model has proven to be adequate for them. Whenever the scale of population grows, any form of Socialism runs into trouble. First is the widespread corruption in the government itself, and this corruption trickles down the ladder until any realized benefit of production is gone, and those who are doing the actual labor and producing, have nothing, and have no hope of ever gaining anything more. The list of places this has happened, are too many to mention here, but the list of places Socialism has succeeded in large population nations, is easy... ZERO! NADDA! ZILCH! To the letter, every single one has gone belly-up, or had to reform.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

No, and I don't have the right to sell you cocaine. I also can't sell you my sister. You want to find some other lame point of contention now?

Unregulated sales of livestock are prohibited to protect the public health...especially in this case...

 

[wiseones2cents]

Here's my point of contention with the pinhead who started this thread. The earth's resources do not "belong to everyone!" That is some warped, twisted, and fucked up fantasy of how this moron WISHES things were, but will never be in reality. Resources belong to who owns them.

How did they come into possession pinhead?

It went something like this. Long long ago. There were resources. The resources belonged to everyone. The tribes started to get larger. There demand for resources started to grow. There was conflict with bordering territories. Even wars to fight over them.

Then a king realized the value of the resources and started conquering other nations, even though they had adequate resources(Basically super greed kicked in).

Therefore the resources became owned by Monarchs. And monarchs sold them(the resources not the land with the resources) for other resources(things) that they did not possess.

Even today, you can buy land but the Queen owns all the resources on the lands under her domain.

Anyways, eventually the Monarchs fell and the rights to the resources for the Monarchs was lost. Governments started to manage those resources(for the people). Now it seems that governments are selling and giving away those resources for next to nothing. WHO GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO DO THAT?

I do not recognize the wealth of these people that became rich selling us resources that SHOULD NOT BELONG TO THEM! Lets say we let bygones be bygones, but this thievery cannot continue!

 

[wiseones2cents]

Nope, and I think you don't understand what capitalism or a capitalist is. This is one of the most idiotic statements that could be made, if you did. The government does indeed 'own' the capital, which is produced by the people. They capitalize on ownership by selling or trading the capital, theoretically, on behalf of all the people, but that isn't what happens. There is capitalistic profiteering, and the people in charge of distributing the capital, those who 'own' the capital, the cronies in the government.... THEY reap the rewards of the capitalist exchange. "The People" ...as in the general population... are kept just above poverty level.

You say it is idiotic and then agree with me?LOL Then you admit, its thievery! They sell the stuff keep the bulk of the profits and give us crumbs!

Communism is the next progression from Socialism.

You dont know what you are talking about. Socialism is rule by the people and Communism is rule by the few. How does rule of the people end up being rule by the few?

No, actually what is having to now occur across Europe, is widespread austerity measures to bring spending back in line with GDP. The diametric OPPOSITE of Socialism. The debt is not caused by capitalism, that is just plain silly, capitalism produces profits, remember? Oh, and by the way, you have still not explained how money is gained to run your society without capitalism. Your last argument was that government is the capitalist, and the people have no economic power whatsoever, are you sticking with that?

Of course!! They must keep this thieving system afloat(perpetual slavery to debt). If people stop paying their debts? The scam is exposed. And the gravy train ends for the rich!

"Should government refrain from regulation (taxation), the worthlessness of the money becomes apparent and the fraud can no longer be concealed." - John Maynard Keynes, ibid.

Well if you don't just give it to someone who needs a table, you have engaged in capitalism. You produced a table from resources we all own, according to you, correct? So then, I must own at least some part of your table, right? Have you compensated me for that part? You used our resources, you aren't entitled to profit from using our resources, are you? Seems to me, you have to give me your table and take nothing in return. Meanwhile, I have this turd I produced, you want it?

Trade is NOT capitalism. Unless you insert a middle man to the transaction!

Well in socialism, the government makes all the sales(Production) and the profit goes towards the benefit of all the people so yes, you do get a share.

If everyone went cutting down trees and building tables there would be no trees left.

I think it is illegal to cut down a tree here in Canada. Unless used for fire wood out in the country. In the city? If it is over a certain diameter? Forget about it. You will get fined!

It's hard to say that every form of socialist government has been tried, how do you prove that? They continue to re-invent it and re-package it as new and improved... call it something different... Progressive Government! The problem is, it hardly ever works. Now.... there are SOME isolated Scandinavian countries, where people tend to not travel, there is no immigration to speak of, and the culture is very tight-knit and family oriented, and for these few isolated groups, a socialist model has proven to be adequate for them. Whenever the scale of population grows, any form of Socialism runs into trouble. First is the widespread corruption in the government itself, and this corruption trickles down the ladder until any realized benefit of production is gone, and those who are doing the actual labor and producing, have nothing, and have no hope of ever gaining anything more. The list of places this has happened, are too many to mention here, but the list of places Socialism has succeeded in large population nations, is easy... ZERO! NADDA! ZILCH! To the letter, every single one has gone belly-up, or had to reform.

OK, I'll tell you what. If I have some time? I will post my definition of Socialism. You can tell me if you agree with it or not.

LOL! Corruption can exist in any government, but capitalism caters to the greedy the most. In a capitalist system, the corps have all the cash and they can bribe politicians to do their bidding. In a socialist system, there is no one to bribe them because they are in charge of the money.lol What they can do is skim just like in every system, but it would be more difficult in a socialist system, because everyone is involved.

True Socialism has not been tried because the Capitalist have used every mean to undermine it. Even if it means killing them. Why do you think the socialist structure of the early Church failed? The secular kings seen the wealth it was generating and started to install puppet leaders within the Church. Then used it for profit.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

How did they come into possession pinhead?

It went something like this. Long long ago. There were resources. The resources belonged to everyone.

I'll stop you there, again this is FALSE! The resources have NEVER belonged to everyone.

The tribes started to get larger. There demand for resources started to grow. There was conflict with bordering territories. Even wars to fight over them.

Again, I will stop you to point out the idiocy of your own flawed premise, if the resources belonged to everyone and this was universally understood, why would they fight wars or have conflicts? I understand there was demand, but the resources are plentiful, the planet still has resources to this day and people still mine them regularly, there is no shortage now, there certainly wasn't a shortage then, so why did they have conflicts and fight, why didn't they just share the resources that everyone understood were universally owned by all? Let me help you out here... because there never was a time where people understood all resources belong to everyone, that is a fucked up socialist fantasy you believe in, and it has no basis in reality.

Then a king realized the value of the resources and started conquering other nations, even though they had adequate resources(Basically super greed kicked in).

Hold up a sec... you have completely skipped over the part where we went from "resources belong to everyone" to kings realizing value... how could there be any value to something that everyone owns and is entitled to? Again.... there never was a time when resources belonged to everyone. They belong to who possess them, who has access to them, who owns the property they are on... that's not 'everybody'.

Therefore the resources became owned by Monarchs. And monarchs sold them(the resources not the land with the resources) for other resources(things) that they did not possess.

No, the resources were owned by monarchs, kings, etc. They did not "become" owned.

Even today, you can buy land but the Queen owns all the resources on the lands under her domain.

Not sure how things work in England, we don't have a Queen here in the US. Resources belong to the property owner, and they can sell rights to mine the resources.

Anyways, eventually the Monarchs fell and the rights to the resources for the Monarchs was lost. Governments started to manage those resources(for the people). Now it seems that governments are selling and giving away those resources for next to nothing. WHO GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO DO THAT?

Well, in America, the voters who elected the people into government who made the rules.... that's who gave them the right. But I can't help notice, have we completely abandoned the notion that all resources belong to everyone? You said monarchs fell and the rights to the resources was lost... that seems to indicate the resources didn't belong to everyone, as you originally stated.

I do not recognize the wealth of these people that became rich selling us resources that SHOULD NOT BELONG TO THEM! Lets say we let bygones be bygones, but this thievery cannot continue!

Unless you owned the land, you didn't own the resources. Therefore, there is no thievery. Wealth does not depend upon your recognition of it... sorry... must be another fucked up fantasy you are having. People owned land with resources, and they sold the rights to the resources for $X per ton or whatever royalty amount was arranged, and they capitalized on owning the land and resources and made a profit. Someone else bought the resource rights, invested in the mining, which cost money, and then re-sold the mined resources for a profit. Someone else bought the mined resources, turned them into another product(s)... resold those, and made a profit... etc, etc, etc. It's called CAPITALISM!