Cars Without Borders: Does “Made in America” Really Matter Anymore?

King of Gods said:
Bfgrn basically lumps any ideology he doesn't like onto the conservative side.
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No he tries to lump "conservative" with liking the status quo and ignores location and historical context. That way he can say that the Founder's were liberal (true) just like he's liberal (true) therefore he's in agreement with the Founders (not true).

Its retarded. That would mean that I like The Obama.
 
Bfgrn said:
OK, let's put an end to all your obfuscation. Would you have given GM and Chrysler loans or would you have let them collapse?
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I guess putting an end to your derailling topics is out of the question, huh?

I was, and still am, torn over the loans. Yes, the 2 auto makers needed to survive. But it is not the gov't responsibility to spend taxpayer dollars to prevent a private business from going bankrupt.
 
WinterBorn said:
I guess putting an end to your derailling topics is out of the question, huh?

I was, and still am, torn over the loans. Yes, the 2 auto makers needed to survive. But it is not the gov't responsibility to spend taxpayer dollars to prevent a private business from going bankrupt.
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In theory and ideally, no....but Germany and Japan's governments have subsidized their auto manufacturers for a very long time now. If not for subsidies from their respective governments there would be no Mercedes-Daimler, VW, Honda or Toyota and a few more names you'd recognize. I say fight fire with fire.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
In theory and ideally, no....but Germany and Japan's governments have subsidized their auto manufacturers for a very long time now. If not for subsidies from their respective governments there would be no Mercedes-Daimler, VW, Honda or Toyota and a few more names you'd recognize. I say fight fire with fire.
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Mercedes-Daimler, VW, Honda, and Toyota also showed competent mgmt and responded to the needs of the consumer. GM & Chrysler did not.
 
WinterBorn said:
Mercedes-Daimler, VW, Honda, and Toyota also showed competent mgmt and responded to the needs of the consumer. GM & Chrysler did not.
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That's an unfounded opinion. If they showed such competent mgmt then how comes they consistantly keep going back to their governments to subsidize their industry and business? I'm reasonably sure that wasn't the case when they were asking their governments for hand outs and what about when the Japanese purposefully devalue the Yen so that they can undercut pricing in the American market which would be illegal here due to the Sherman Antitrust act? The Chinese do the same, under value their currency so that they can under cut domestic pricing in the USA and thus export more. It's illegal as hell for a business to do that here domestically but what can we do about a foreign nation who is in collusion with their own government to manipulate their currency to their advantage for just such a purpose? The Sherman Antitrust act does not apply if they are not manufacturing those items here and that's exactly what they did when the bottom fell out of the SUV/Light Truck market. Japan's big auto makers, as soon as they started losing major sales, had their government devalue the Yen so they could export cars to the US at lower cost, so don't try to sell me on their "Superior Management.". They screwed the pooch in the US just like GM did and went running to their government as fast as they could when they started losing money. The main difference is the speed in which the Japanese government began subsidizing their automakers an advantage GM certainly didn't have.
 
WinterBorn said:
I guess putting an end to your derailling topics is out of the question, huh?

I was, and still am, torn over the loans. Yes, the 2 auto makers needed to survive. But it is not the gov't responsibility to spend taxpayer dollars to prevent a private business from going bankrupt.
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Yes it is the government's responsibility when the same taxpayers of this country and the economy is at stake, and when private lenders were unwilling to extend the loans. To NOT step in and let 3 million jobs go down with it would be irresponsible government. It is in the taxpayer's best interest to keep those people working, instead of going on the public dole. It is in the taxpayer's best interests to keep companies going that create tax revenue.

The taxpayers were on the hook either way. Obama made the best choice, thankfully.
 
Bfgrn said:
Yes it is the government's responsibility when the same taxpayers of this country and the economy is at stake, and when private lenders were unwilling to extend the loans. To NOT step in and let 3 million jobs go down with it would be irresponsible government. It is in the taxpayer's best interest to keep those people working, instead of going on the public dole. It is in the taxpayer's best interests to keep companies going that create tax revenue.

The taxpayers were on the hook either way. Obama made the best choice, thankfully.
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You feel the same way about the Wall St bailouts?
 
cawacko said:
You feel the same way about the Wall St bailouts?
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Yes, but I had to really hold my nose for that one, and so did Obama. Again, the American people would have taken the brunt had they been allowed to fail. It would have wiped out people's 401k's and retirements.
 
Bfgrn said:
Yes, but I had to really hold my nose for that one, and so did Obama. Again, the American people would have taken the brunt had they been allowed to fail. It would have wiped out people's 401k's and retirements.
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translation:

i love obama and will defend anything he does, even if they makes me a political hack
 
King of Guns said:
Refute it.
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The labels given to the different fields and axes on the compass are based on long-standing European and Commonwealth terminology, which can be different to those used in the politics of the United States[citation needed].

A number of other multi-axis models of political thought exist. Some are based on similar axes to the Political Spectrum. A similar chart appeared in Floodgates of Anarchy by Albert Meltzer.[3]

Politicalcompass.org

The Politicalcompass.org website does not reveal the people behind it, beyond the fact that it seems to be based in the UK.[4][5] According to the New York Times, the site is the work of Wayne Brittenden, a political journalist.[1] According to Tom Utley, writing in the Daily Telegraph, the site is connected to One World Action, a charity founded by Glenys Kinnock, and to Kinnock herself.[6] An early version of the site was published on One World Action's web server.[7]

The website does not explain its scoring system in detail and some writers have criticised its validity while others have treated it more as a form of entertainment than a rigorous analysis.
wiki
 
Bfgrn said:
The labels given to the different fields and axes on the compass are based on long-standing European and Commonwealth terminology, which can be different to those used in the politics of the United States[citation needed].

A number of other multi-axis models of political thought exist. Some are based on similar axes to the Political Spectrum. A similar chart appeared in Floodgates of Anarchy by Albert Meltzer.[3]

Politicalcompass.org

The Politicalcompass.org website does not reveal the people behind it, beyond the fact that it seems to be based in the UK.[4][5] According to the New York Times, the site is the work of Wayne Brittenden, a political journalist.[1] According to Tom Utley, writing in the Daily Telegraph, the site is connected to One World Action, a charity founded by Glenys Kinnock, and to Kinnock herself.[6] An early version of the site was published on One World Action's web server.[7]

The website does not explain its scoring system in detail and some writers have criticised its validity while others have treated it more as a form of entertainment than a rigorous analysis.
wiki
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Hardly a refutation. If anything, the initial statment "The labels given to the different fields and axes on the compass are based on long-standing European and Commonwealth terminology, which can be different to those used in the politics of the United States" proves my side and refutes yours.
 
King of Guns said:
Hardly a refutation. If anything, the initial statment "The labels given to the different fields and axes on the compass are based on long-standing European and Commonwealth terminology, which can be different to those used in the politics of the United States" proves my side and refutes yours.
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Only in a playground, not in the adult world.
 
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