Children suffer from America’s use of chemical weapons during the Vietnam War

[jet57]

Yet you choose to ignore the direct evidence provided by blood tests that abnormally high dioxin levels are present in Vietnamese near Agent Orange storage sites.

So what unit were you with when you were over there dodging those little fuckers in the black pajamas who hiding in trees and hold companies of men in tunnels. Was it '66 or '67 perhaps?

 

[cancel2 2022]

Can we clear up one thing at least, dioxins were not the principal ingredients in Agent Orange indeed they shouldn't have been there at all. It was a result of an imperfect production process.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/10/w...-contamination-in-vietnam.html?pagewanted=all

 

[Rune]

That's bad due; really bad. To pick on a guy's special needs kids like that, while on another thread you tell proplr to behave themselves.

He is "special needs" himself. Thanks, but don't bother. Ignorant asshole is ignorant and an asshole.

 

[cancel2 2022]

So what unit were you with when you were over there dodging those little fuckers in the black pajamas who hiding in trees and hold companies of men in tunnels. Was it '66 or '67 perhaps?

I was in Saigon a couple of years ago and went to several of the museums there, including one devoted to the effects of weapons like Agent Orange.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

No, it was about correcting an inaccurate statement you tried to use to justify your position.

You claimed another falsehood as well, and since you have reared your ugly head again, I will use my self and my children again, to again prove you wrong. I was a child during 'Nam and I have children, not grandchildren, so your other attempted strawman is false as well. Modern generations can be much longer than the 20 years you imply.

Unless you can show you were exposed to Agent Orange, as a child, you're entire attempt is pathetic.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Yet you choose to ignore the direct evidence provided by blood tests that abnormally high dioxin levels are present in Vietnamese near Agent Orange storage sites.

Then why isn't everyone there at the same level or at a level that can be determined by the amount of time they spent there?
Why aren't all children born to these "exposed" adults showing symptoms?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

That's bad due; really bad. To pick on a guy's special needs kids like that, while on another thread you tell proplr to behave themselves.

Well; I consider it really bad for someone to try and equate their children's problems as a way to support their assumptions of what's occurring else where.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I know - I know.
<patting rune on the top of his pointy cranium>

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I was in Saigon a couple of years ago and went to several of the museums there, including one devoted to the effects of weapons like Agent Orange.

Did they have one devoted to how the North Vietnamese treated people in the villages?
Or maybe there was one showing their treatment of POWs.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

Yes because a 9.0 earthquake immediately followed by a 15 metre tsunami is all their fault.

Building it on a fault line was. I'm just saying.

 

[Airstrip One]

Yes because a 9.0 earthquake immediately followed by a 15 metre tsunami is all their fault.

Well, I didn't say it was warranted. It was just an example of environmental outrage at someone other than America.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

So what unit were you with when you were over there dodging those little fuckers in the black pajamas who hiding in trees and hold companies of men in tunnels. Was it '66 or '67 perhaps?

Umm what does that have to do with anything?

 

[cancel2 2022]

Did they have one devoted to how the North Vietnamese treated people in the villages?
Or maybe there was one showing their treatment of POWs.

There is no doubt that the Vietcong could be very cruel especially to prisoners but that is another issue. If you want to talk about that start another thread.

 

[cancel2 2022]

Building it on a fault line was. I'm just saying.

The whole of Japan particularly Honshu is on or near a fault line, although in retrospect building it on the Pacific side of the island was not such a good idea.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

There is no doubt that the Vietcong could be very cruel especially to prisoners but that is another issue. If you want to talk about that start another thread.

Or every one could try and use provable comments, when they try to tug at the heart stings to start a discussion.

 

[cancel2 2022]

Or every one could try and use provable comments, when they try to tug at the heart stings to start a discussion.

I am not what constitutes provable to you. You can't seem to understand that dioxins are extremely persistent and remain in the soil for many years and are then leached out into water. This is especially tragic in somewhere like Vietnam where so many live on a high fish diet. Maybe you could try to provide evidence of the converse? Can you show me that dioxins are not cumulative toxins that stay in the fat for many years and do not appear in the semen of men in contact with it?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8914711

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4494347.stm

http://science.howstuffworks.com/agent-orange2.htm

 

[Taft2016]

No, it was about correcting an inaccurate statement you tried to use to justify your position.

No, to the contrary. You've proven my point that any number of toxins from industrial waste could have caused the birth defects.

 

[Taft2016]

Can you show me that dioxins are not cumulative toxins that stay in the fat for many years and do not appear in the semen of men in contact with it?

No, that's not how it works. Decades of medical testing have not established a causation. If you're going to argue a causation, you'll need to prove it.

Unless your position is that the American medical experiments are backwards and biased, and the Vietnamese ones are advanced and objective.

In which case I say "LOL!"

 

[cancel2 2022]

No, that's not how it works. Decades of medical testing have not established a causation. If you're going to argue a causation, you'll need to prove it.

Unless your position is that the American medical experiments are backwards and biased, and the Vietnamese ones are advanced and objective.

In which case I say "LOL!"

So where does this come from then?

Am J Ind Med. 1996 Dec;30(6):647-54.
Dioxins and dioxin-like chemicals in blood and semen of American Vietnam veterans from the state of Michigan.

Schecter A[SUP]1[/SUP], McGee H, Stanley JS, Boggess K, Brandt-Rauf P.
Author information

Erratum in

• Am J Ind Med 1997 Mar;31(3):370-1.

Abstract

This exposure assessment pilot study tested the hypothesis that elevated blood levels of the dioxin congener 2,3,7,8-TCDD ("TCDD"), due to Agent Orange exposure, in American Vietnam veterans could be demonstrated two to three decades after Vietnam service. A second objective was to determine if dioxins, including TCDD, are present in the semen of adult males. In the early 1990s, blood samples from 50 Vietnam veterans and three pooled semen samples from 17 of them were analyzed by high-resolution gas chromatography-mass spectroscopy for dioxins, dibenzofurans, and the dioxin-like PCBs. Fifty volunteers from the Michigan Vietnam veteran bonus list, which documented Vietnam service, were invited to participate based on their self-reported exposure to Agent Orange in Vietnam. Screening of military and medical records was performed by an epidemiologist and a physician to assure that Agent Orange exposure was possible based on job description, location of service in Vietnam, and military Agent Orange spray records. Elevated 2,3,7,8-TCDD levels, over 20 ppt on a lipid basis, could still be detected in six of the 50 veterans in this nonrandomly selected group. The dioxin and dibenzofuran congeners commonly found in the U.S. population, including TCDD, were also detected in the three pooled semen samples. Quantification and comparison on a lipid basis were not possible due to low lipid concentrations where levels were below the detection limit. Therefore, semen samples were measured and reported on a wet-weight basis. Elevated blood TCDD levels, probably related to Agent Orange exposure, can be detected between two and three decades after potential exposure in some American veterans. Original levels were estimated to be 35-1,500-fold greater that that of the general population (4 ppt, lipid) at the time of exposure. In addition, the detection of dioxins in semen suggests a possible mechanism for male-mediated adverse reproductive outcomes following Agent Orange or other dioxin exposure.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8914711

 

[Taft2016]

Yeah, I'm still pissed about it too. When we invaded them they should have greeted us as liberators and instead they fought their invaders. Bastards.

Forty years of pissing and moaning, and the left still hasn't gotten the story straight.

The democratic republic of South Vietnam was a SEATO alliance partner who sought our assistance in driving out the North Vietnamese invaders.

The pisspants leftist argument at the time was that there were no invaders from the North, that we were interfering in a civil war within South Vietnam itself. Hanoi acknowledged long ago they were behind it all, and that they were able to dupe the American left and news media.

They thank you for your assistance, and all of the people who suffered subsequently under communist tyranny, and all of the boat people who perished on the seas trying to flee it, thank you for your dimwittedness.