Children suffer from America’s use of chemical weapons during the Vietnam War

[Taft2016]

In addition, the detection of dioxins in semen suggests a possible mechanism for male-mediated adverse reproductive outcomes following Agent Orange or other dioxin exposure.

Do you understand the concept of "conclusive proof"?

 

[Rune]

No dickhead. There are obviously many causes of birth defects. Agent Orange is one of many.

What cannot be denied, no matter how much you twist and turn, lie and protest is the incredible toxicity of Dioxin, the principle ingredient in Agent Orange.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs225/en/

Dioxins are environmental pollutants. They have the dubious distinction of belonging to the “dirty dozen” - a group of dangerous chemicals known as persistent organic pollutants. Dioxins are of concern because of their highly toxic potential. Experiments have shown they affect a number of organs and systems.
Once dioxins have entered the body, they endure a long time because of their chemical stability and their ability to be absorbed by fat tissue, where they are then stored in the body. Their half-life in the body is estimated to be seven to eleven years. In the environment, dioxins tend to accumulate in the food chain. The higher in the animal food chain one goes, the higher the concentration of dioxin


Their effect on human reproduction and health;

• Dioxins are highly toxic and can cause reproductive and developmental problems, damage the immune system, interfere with hormones and also cause cancer.

Their longevity once ingested;

Vietnamese men living near a former U.S. military base where Agent Orange was stored and sprayed more than 40 years ago remain highly contaminated with dioxins, according to a new study.
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/2014/mar/vietnamese-men-dioxin-exposure

or the fact that the US spread vast amounts of the most toxic substance known to man (dioxin is the single most powerful poison existing at this time).

Your entire argument boils down to an attempt to obscure reality and deny the truth, nothing more, nothing less.

Tafthole? Nothing? That's what I thought. Shut your cock slurping mouth corporate ball licker

 

[Taft2016]

Tafthole? Nothing? That's what I thought. Shut your cock slurping mouth corporate ball licker

Uhh, I don't understand why I should be arguing with you when you're making the point I'm making as well.

You're really kind of dim bulb, arentcha?

 

[evince]

and then the right cheered while Bush recreated this horror by commiting a war crime and using white phosphorous as a weapon in falughia.


why did your party in congress NEVER do anything about that war crime?

because republicans now love war crimes

 

[cancel2 2022]

Forty years of pissing and moaning, and the left still hasn't gotten the story straight.

The democratic republic of South Vietnam was a SEATO alliance partner who sought our assistance in driving out the North Vietnamese invaders.

The pisspants leftist argument at the time was that there were no invaders from the North, that we were interfering in a civil war within South Vietnam itself. Hanoi acknowledged long ago they were behind it all, and that they were able to dupe the American left and news media.

They thank you for your assistance, and all of the people who suffered subsequently under communist tyranny, and all of the boat people who perished on the seas trying to flee it, thank you for your dimwittedness.

Yet it was those self same Vietnamese that came to the rescue of the Cambodians and kicked out the Kmer Rouge and Pol Pot. I have been to the Tuol Sleng Genocide Museum, it is a very humbling experience on a part with Auschwitz, which I've also been to as well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/8/newsid_2506000/2506533.stm

 

[cancel2 2022]

and then the right cheered while Bush recreated this horror by commiting a war crime and using white phosphorous as a weapon in falughia.


why did your party in congress NEVER do anything about that war crime?

because republicans now love war crimes

This is about Vietnam, stop hijacking other people's threads.

 

[Taft2016]

Yet it was those self same Vietnamese that came to the rescue of the Cambodians and kicked out the Kmer Rouge and Pol Pot. I have been to the Tuol Sleng Genocide Museum, it is a very humbling experience on a part with Auschwitz, which I've also been to as well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/8/newsid_2506000/2506533.stm

Yeah, the altruistic nature of 20th century communist regimes is well documented.

 

[jet57]

Well; I consider it really bad for someone to try and equate their children's problems as a way to support their assumptions of what's occurring else where.

When they are drawn form the same context they're relevant. Very very bad form on your part.

 

[jet57]

I was in Saigon a couple of years ago and went to several of the museums there, including one devoted to the effects of weapons like Agent Orange.

You didn't get the point; so I'll put it this way: in 1945 would have rathered that the allies invaded Japan and risked one million casualites or dropped the bomb? There are decisions made at the times that are deemed the best ideas for those moments ana for what technoilogies are available. Napalm is a cruel thig as well, but it's job is set fire and flush people out. For you to come along some fifty years later and point the finger; after knowing full well that the Royal Airforce fire bombed hunreds of thousands of German civilians in WWII is at best disengenuous on your part.

 

[Taft2016]

When they are drawn form the same context they're relevant. Very very bad form on your part.

I think the point was that they *WEREN'T* from the same context. To sum up the discussion:

Me: how can you attribute birth defects soley to Agent Orange and not consider the presence of any other pollutants?

Rune: you dumbass. Pollutants can cause birth defects.

Frankly, it's a non-sequitur of Desh-like proportions.

 

[jet57]

I think the point was that they *WEREN'T* from the same context. To sum up the discussion:

Me: how can you attribute birth defects soley to Agent Orange and not consider the presence of any other pollutants?

Rune: you dumbass. Pollutants can cause birth defects.

Frankly, it's a non-sequitur of Desh-like proportions.

The *ARE* from the very same context: war. Agent orange used to destroy enemy cover and how horrible it was look at all these kids: that's the discussion, all else is superfluous.

 

[Taft2016]

The *ARE* from the very same context: war. Agent orange used to destroy enemy cover and how horrible it was look at all these kids: that's the discussion, all else is superfluous.

Sure, and these kids are born how long after the fact? With no scientific link between the birth defects and Agent Orange?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I am not what constitutes provable to you. You can't seem to understand that dioxins are extremely persistent and remain in the soil for many years and are then leached out into water. This is especially tragic in somewhere like Vietnam where so many live on a high fish diet. Maybe you could try to provide evidence of the converse? Can you show me that dioxins are not cumulative toxins that stay in the fat for many years and do not appear in the semen of men in contact with it?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8914711

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4494347.stm

http://science.howstuffworks.com/agent-orange2.htm

Your response was an answer I gave, regarding Rune.
Why don't you read the "chronology" of the posts, before trying to take two different things and cram them into one.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I am not what constitutes provable to you. You can't seem to understand that dioxins are extremely persistent and remain in the soil for many years and are then leached out into water. This is especially tragic in somewhere like Vietnam where so many live on a high fish diet. Maybe you could try to provide evidence of the converse? Can you show me that dioxins are not cumulative toxins that stay in the fat for many years and do not appear in the semen of men in contact with it?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8914711

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4494347.stm

http://science.howstuffworks.com/agent-orange2.htm

While it MAY be the case, why isn't it affecting everyone the same; especially ALL the children?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Uhh, I don't understand why I should be arguing with you when you're making the point I'm making as well.

You're really kind of dim bulb, arentcha?

You have to understand that Rune is an Emo and everything is sad to him.

Here's a picture of him, in his normal state:

 

[USFREEDOM911]

When they are drawn form the same context they're relevant. Very very bad form on your part.

How in the hell are from the same context?
This thread started about the supposed problems that Agent Orange may have caused and Rune the Emo wants to throw his children under the bus, in order to make it look like he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Rune]

Uhh, I don't understand why I should be arguing with you when you're making the point I'm making as well.

You're really kind of dim bulb, arentcha?

The chonology of post; see if you can follow.
Here you claim we don't have birth defects in this country;

Certainly it could. We have thousands of people right here in this country who were directly exposed to Agent Orange, probably more direct contact than any Vietnamese natives experienced. Surely, we must have scores of these deformed youths running around this country to produce as evidence?

What? We don't?

Didn't think so.

Here you claimed children during the 'Nam war would be grandparents by now.

One of the most rudimentary logical traps is that correlation = causation.

Nothing has been confirmed to link Agent Orange to birth defects, despite whatever recompensation the gov't provides.

Furthermore, at this point we're talking about the *grandchildren* of those exposed to it.

Here I proved we do have birth defects in this country;

Yes we do. Birth defects are a rampant epidemic in this country, ignorant asshole.

I have two children. Both of them have birth defects. Drink cyanide.

Here you moved the goal posts;

Are they related to you being exposed to Agent Orange?

Do you have any idea what this discussion is about?

Here you lied and claimed the opposite of what you said above;

So children in the USA can have birth defects from pollution, as I've described.

But apparently that same scenario in Vietnam is impossible. It has to be caused by Agent Orange there.

Oh brother. These discussions are as productive as putting my scrotum on an anvil and whacking it with a ballpeen hammer.

Here I proved you wrong on all counts, that Agent Orange doubtless has caused multitudes of birth defects.

No dickhead. There are obviously many causes of birth defects. Agent Orange is one of many.

What cannot be denied, no matter how much you twist and turn, lie and protest is the incredible toxicity of Dioxin, the principle ingredient in Agent Orange.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs225/en/

Dioxins are environmental pollutants. They have the dubious distinction of belonging to the “dirty dozen” - a group of dangerous chemicals known as persistent organic pollutants. Dioxins are of concern because of their highly toxic potential. Experiments have shown they affect a number of organs and systems.
Once dioxins have entered the body, they endure a long time because of their chemical stability and their ability to be absorbed by fat tissue, where they are then stored in the body. Their half-life in the body is estimated to be seven to eleven years. In the environment, dioxins tend to accumulate in the food chain. The higher in the animal food chain one goes, the higher the concentration of dioxin


Their effect on human reproduction and health;

• Dioxins are highly toxic and can cause reproductive and developmental problems, damage the immune system, interfere with hormones and also cause cancer.

Their longevity once ingested;

Vietnamese men living near a former U.S. military base where Agent Orange was stored and sprayed more than 40 years ago remain highly contaminated with dioxins, according to a new study.
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/2014/mar/vietnamese-men-dioxin-exposure

or the fact that the US spread vast amounts of the most toxic substance known to man (dioxin is the single most powerful poison existing at this time).

Your entire argument boils down to an attempt to obscure reality and deny the truth, nothing more, nothing less.

Here I proved children during the spraying of Agent Orange could easily bear children with birth defects;

No, it was about correcting an inaccurate statement you tried to use to justify your position.

You claimed another falsehood as well, and since you have reared your ugly head again, I will use my self and my children again, to again prove you wrong. I was a child during 'Nam and I have children, not grandchildren, so your other attempted strawman is false as well. Modern generations can be much longer than the 20 years you imply.

Which you refused to address by editing my post so you didn't have to reply to it;

No, to the contrary. You've proven my point that any number of toxins from industrial waste could have caused the birth defects.

Here you again move the goal posts and try to say that the two of us are in agreement (meaning you realized how wrong you have bee the whole time).

Uhh, I don't understand why I should be arguing with you when you're making the point I'm making as well.

You're really kind of dim bulb, arentcha?

Now man up and admit you are wrong and a liar.

 

[Taft2016]

Rune, dude, you're like, seriously fuckin' retarded.

I mean, you make Darla look intelligent....

Wow. Just, wow.

 

[Taft2016]

The chonology of post; see if you can follow.
Here you claim we don't have birth defects in this country

LOL!

Here you claimed children during the 'Nam war would be grandparents by now.

LOL!

So, someone who was say, 10 years-old in 1968, couldn't be a grandparent of one of those 2 or 3 year-old kids in the photos? Someone who is 55 or 56 years-old can't have a 2 or 3 year-old grandchild?

Lol...

OK, enough unraveling of your idiocy. ...

 

[Rune]

Rune, dude, you're like, seriously fuckin' retarded.

I mean, you make Darla look intelligent....

Wow. Just, wow.

Darla is intelligent fucknut. Now respond to my post and stop changing the subject.