Christmas

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seriously, what does this day, holiday, really mean? it is not the actual birth of christ. in fact, it is traced back to pagen rituals.

i would be interested in how christians (i believe in christ) believe that christmas has anything to do with christ....

i will grant this - it apparently has turned into - a time to think about christ

yet....does anyone really take the time, or is it about getting together with family and exchanging material goods?
 
Since there were no reporters on hand to actually witness God's kid come into the world, the actual date of the birth of Jesus is unknown. In fact, ironically, many historians believe that home slice was born around 3 or 4 BC.

So they stole the dates around pagan and jewish holidays and turned it into a pure, naked, unadulterated capitalist circle jerk, in the name of the lord.
 
Actually Luke's book pretty much tells you that Christ was born either at the end of September through early October.
 
I see no reason to dismiss this celebration because of a date issue though. It simply is the day they selected to share a Mass for Christ. Christ's Mass was shortened to become Christmas. Not a big deal really.

The gifts given are symbolic of the gifts brought to the child Christ by the Magi. Trees, etc. oddly enough are all Pagan, and are actually mentioned in the Bible. In the Old Testament they speak about the practice and ask not to do it because it celebrates the Pagan rituals. However, once taken and used to celebrate Christ it pretty much takes away from the whole Pagan thing anyway.

It seems that people are lost in the minutiae when they get all bent about the exact date and rituals. Who really cares?

It's a good time to get together and build community, it is an excellent extension of Compassion, it is a free exchange that isn't always, in fact I think almost never, about yourself. You give gifts to extend joy, to end suffering. How many of us gave gifts to gift drives for the poor? I'd venture that almost all of us have. If you haven't, what's your malfunction?
 
Damocles said:
I see no reason to dismiss this celebration because of a date issue though. It simply is the day they selected to share a Mass for Christ. Christ's Mass was shortened to become Christmas. Not a big deal really.

The gifts given are symbolic of the gifts brought to the child Christ by the Magi. Trees, etc. oddly enough are all Pagan, and are actually mentioned in the Bible. In the Old Testament they speak about the practice and ask not to do it because it celebrates the Pagan rituals. However, once taken and used to celebrate Christ it pretty much takes away from the whole Pagan thing anyway.

It seems that people are lost in the minutiae when they get all bent about the exact date and rituals. Who really cares?

It's a good time to get together and build community, it is an excellent extension of Compassion, it is a free exchange that isn't always, in fact I think almost never, about yourself. You give gifts to extend joy, to end suffering. How many of us gave gifts to gift drives for the poor? I'd venture that almost all of us have. If you haven't, what's your malfunction?
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actually, christ cared about dates and empty rituals...so it does matter.

if you read the NT, christ is clearly upset over certain rituals and how they have distorted the truth and god.

faith cannot be proven by man's scientific method, but, i think it important to get as much truth as possible about the belief, else it is nothing but a false belief.
 
Yurt said:
seriously, what does this day, holiday, really mean? it is not the actual birth of christ. in fact, it is traced back to pagen rituals.

i would be interested in how christians (i believe in christ) believe that christmas has anything to do with christ....

i will grant this - it apparently has turned into - a time to think about christ

yet....does anyone really take the time, or is it about getting together with family and exchanging material goods?
Click to expand...

From memory (not good, swilling as it is in a fair quantity of less than adequate white wine) you might find the answers to your first point within the works of the Venerable Bede.
Many that I know take the time to reflect upon their meaning of Christmas, although I must own to an alternative motive; that of helping my local pub towards payment of their rent and protection against their evil landlord.
Cheers, little chap. May Santa bring you all you want ... and nothing you need.
 
According to the Bible, John T. Baptist was born on Pentecost. Christ was about two months younger than John. If you take Pentecost, and add two months, you wind up at about December 25. Hence the holiday. Now, historically, Christians weren't really into celebrating Christmas, so it a while for the festivities to really get going.
 
Threedee said:
According to the Bible, John T. Baptist was born on Pentecost. Christ was about two months younger than John. If you take Pentecost, and add two months, you wind up at about December 25. Hence the holiday. Now, historically, Christians weren't really into celebrating Christmas, so it a while for the festivities to really get going.
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No, Christ was more than two months younger. Check out the link I gave earlier, dude.
 
Threedee said:
According to the Bible, John T. Baptist was born on Pentecost. Christ was about two months younger than John. If you take Pentecost, and add two months, you wind up at about December 25. Hence the holiday. Now, historically, Christians weren't really into celebrating Christmas, so it a while for the festivities to really get going.
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this may have escaped your notice, but Pentacost is in May........

the long and short of it, they just picked a date to celebrate the birth of Christ and wanted to wean people off celebrating the pagan winter solstice......does it matter?........the Christians were celebrating at Christmas, though it wasn't the sort of celebration that's become popular in the last fifty years or so.....It's my understanding that CocaCola had a lot to do with that.......
 
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Damocles said:
I see no reason to dismiss this celebration because of a date issue though. It simply is the day they selected to share a Mass for Christ. Christ's Mass was shortened to become Christmas. Not a big deal really.

The gifts given are symbolic of the gifts brought to the child Christ by the Magi. Trees, etc. oddly enough are all Pagan, and are actually mentioned in the Bible. In the Old Testament they speak about the practice and ask not to do it because it celebrates the Pagan rituals. However, once taken and used to celebrate Christ it pretty much takes away from the whole Pagan thing anyway.

It seems that people are lost in the minutiae when they get all bent about the exact date and rituals. Who really cares?

It's a good time to get together and build community, it is an excellent extension of Compassion, it is a free exchange that isn't always, in fact I think almost never, about yourself. You give gifts to extend joy, to end suffering. How many of us gave gifts to gift drives for the poor? I'd venture that almost all of us have. If you haven't, what's your malfunction?
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sounds like something a theocrat would say...

maybe god is the spirit of giving, or a very large scientist, or energy, or the laws of physics, or everything!
 
Threedee said:
According to the Bible, John T. Baptist was born on Pentecost. Christ was about two months younger than John. If you take Pentecost, and add two months, you wind up at about December 25. Hence the holiday. Now, historically, Christians weren't really into celebrating Christmas, so it a while for the festivities to really get going.
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John was born June 24. At least that's the day Catholics attribute to it. He was about six months older than Jesus.
 
AssHatZombie said:
sounds like something a theocrat would say...

maybe god is the spirit of giving, or a very large scientist, or energy, or the laws of physics, or everything!
Click to expand...

dates schmates. I have just got back from our local rooftop bar (chilly tonight, wore a blazer). That's Christmas. Good friends, carols and Christmas songs of childhood vying with the gentle sighing of the swell reminding the sleek white hulls in the marina of peace and good will. After ten the music got wound up a bit, mistletoe was in abundance and tales were told of christmases long ago - in England, in Germany, in Scotland and Australia. When fathers and uncles knelt on the lounge carpet fixing the train set while the rest of the family snoozed before the queen and we kids looked forward to the traditional trifle and the possibility of being heartily sick. Ahh, memories.
And tomorrow we must be prepared to climb Mount Turkey and all the trimmings before an alcohol induced forty (or even fifty) winks.
 
Lowaicue said:
dates schmates. I have just got back from our local rooftop bar (chilly tonight, wore a blazer). That's Christmas. Good friends, carols and Christmas songs of childhood vying with the gentle sighing of the swell reminding the sleek white hulls in the marina of peace and good will. After ten the music got wound up a bit, mistletoe was in abundance and tales were told of christmases long ago - in England, in Germany, in Scotland and Australia. When fathers and uncles knelt on the lounge carpet fixing the train set while the rest of the family snoozed before the queen and we kids looked forward to the traditional trifle and the possibility of being heartily sick. Ahh, memories.
And tomorrow we must be prepared to climb Mount Turkey and all the trimmings before an alcohol induced forty (or even fifty) winks.
Click to expand...

hmmm... sounds gay...
 
Christmas has come to mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people, but, as they say, it's all good.

It is about family, and about giving & celebrating. For many, it is still very much about Christ & the religious aspect. No question that there is materialism involved w/ the holiday now, but again, that's in the spirit of giving & celebration, as well.

I love the story about soldiers in WWI coming out of the trenches on Christmas day, meeting in the middle and having a celebratory drink together (or something like that).

I'm sure JC, if he is somewhere along the lines of what most people think he was or represented, is pretty pleased about what goes on at Christmas. It's definitely a time when people set aside differences, hostilities, worries & other negative proclivities to think about others. It's like a time-out from the craziness of the rest of the year.

I mean - I'm even posting on a Yurt thread without calling him a hack or apologist. Christmas is just something to appreciate; the dates don't really matter....
 
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