Coal Keeps Winning! 4 West Mine (Greene County, PA) Closing - 370 Jobs

So you live in "coal country" in PA, do you? Maybe you should do a little research, as of 2013 there were only 7 people living in Centralia, the last time I went through (Oct. of last year), I saw no signs of human life, the few remaining homes were abandoned. That fire started in 1962 from burning trash in the landfill of an abandoned strip mine.
Oh, and by the way, my grandfather died of Pneumoconiosis (also known as Black Lung) from working in a coal mine, not emphysema.

First, I never said I currently live in coal country. Please learn to read.

Second, the fact that no one lives in Centralia anymore is exactly my point.

Third, Black Lung causes Emphysema. Emphysema is what you actually die of if you have Black Lung.

boy do you look foolish.
 

Hello and greetings katzgar,

Thanks for that link:

"Summit Power Group plans to scrap the power generating portion of the Texas Clean Energy Project in a bid to keep the troubled coal project alive after the federal government pulled funding for the project earlier this year."

As I suspected, the project appears to be wishful thinking, and not cost-effective. It represents no big future for coal. More of a desperate last gasp.
 
It is clear from some of the posts in this thread that many of the people really don't know anything about coal mining or coal mining areas. I am third generation Shanty Irish. My great-grandfather came to the U.S. from Ireland and mined coal and died from it. My grandfather mined coal and died from it. He made certain that not one of his sons ever stepped foot in a coal mine before he died of emphysema. The people that want coal industry to come back are people who never worked in mines before or never moved on from mining. The people in coal country in PA still live and die with the results of the coal industry everyday. Talk to people of Centralia, PA who have coal shafts on fire under their feet. Talk to all the people that lost sons and daughters to coal holes and bank collapses. Tell them how much you want coal to make a comeback.

Hello and greetings smb,

I'm sorry for you losses. You have shared a personal anecdote which brings a stark human perspective into the discussion. Sounds like sage advice. Thanks.
 
What does race have to do with it?

Where conservatives part company with progressives is in the area of using government to do things the free market should be doing. If coal is dying, it doesn’t need federal regulations to speed the process. Obama set out to kill an industry.

And Hillary promised to keep it going. That’s how you make a blue state red.

Hello Darth Omar,

Race has nothing to do with this issue. I brought it up as a matter of perspective. Coal miners are not the only people in the USA suffering from lack of opportunity. Actually there are far far bigger social problems than displaced coal workers. And that says a lot, because losing a career to modernization is horrible. I know that from first hand experience. President Obama did not set out to kill an industry. That was not the goal. The goal is to save the planet, to save humanity from industrialization. It is very sad that coal jobs must go, but go they must. No two ways around it.
 
There are two installations that have already gone live at Petro Nova and the Kemper Plant in Mississippi.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...he-way/?sw_bypass=true&utm_term=.312c8ab7513c

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Hello Havana Moon,

Thanks for that article. Again, it does not elaborate on just what grade of coal the plant requires. I would expect that it would use only the highest quality of coal, and not be an answer which could be ramped up to bring coal back as a major energy source.
 
You don't know anything about the coal mining history obviously.. Blacks also worked in coal mines.

Dude, I live in WV.

You’re not going to educate me on it. Blacks fought side by side with poor whites in the Battle of Blair Mountain.

And they were all ‘Rednecks’ lol.
 
Hello Darth Omar,

Race has nothing to do with this issue. I brought it up as a matter of perspective. Coal miners are not the only people in the USA suffering from lack of opportunity. Actually there are far far bigger social problems than displaced coal workers. And that says a lot, because losing a career to modernization is horrible. I know that from first hand experience. President Obama did not set out to kill an industry. That was not the goal. The goal is to save the planet, to save humanity from industrialization. It is very sad that coal jobs must go, but go they must. No two ways around it.
well.he tried to kill coal then to save the planet if you wanna go out on that limb.
India is still building coal plants, China too, although they are slowing down.

Why should we have to pay for their coal plants v ( Paris accords)
 
Hello Havana Moon,

Thanks for justifying that government spending.
To my mind over $1 billion per year for a technology that only provides, at most 4% of US electricity, and has to backed up by dispatchable power, at all times, is a shitty deal.

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In reply to my post: "No, I don not believe at all that workers displaced by automation will readily acquire suitable replacement employment. Worse yet, this problem is in it's infancy. AI is going to displace most workers in the coming decades. Our only solution is going to be more socialism mixed in with our capitalism. One day there will be a basic universal income for all in return for doing absolutely nothing. This will be paid for by increasing taxes on the super-rich who caused the loss of jobs."

When the super-rich run out of money, where will the money come from then?
Myself, I prefer to be self-supportive. Why don't you?

Hello RB 60,

You have not established the premise (that the super-rich will run out of money) will occur.

You have made an incorrect assumption about me. I am not the subject. You enter very dangerous territory talking about me. I am currently building an extensive Permanent Ignore List. I have zero qualms about making more entries. I really don't want to mess around with personal jabs. That is not why I am here. I am happy to conceptualize and discuss ideas and issues with people of all views. It goes downhill rapidly when people begin talking about one another, so it is my intention to remain above that.

I absolutely get it that up until now the people of a nation must produce what the nation requires. I also get it that AI technology is poised to eliminate the need for humans to perform production. Since that technology will be owned by the super-rich, the responsibility falls upon them to provide for the nation. Capitalism owes humanity nothing. Belief that capitalism will care for all is incorrect. That is the goal of socialism. We are going to have to accept a balance of capitalism and socialism which must be constantly reviewed and adjusted. The alarming trajectory of widening wealth inequality is already having a negative affect on society and our economy. It simply cannot work for the super-rich to displace most workers with AI and let them starve. That is a recipe for economic disaster.
 
Hello Havana Moon,

Thanks for that article. Again, it does not elaborate on just what grade of coal the plant requires. I would expect that it would use only the highest quality of coal, and not be an answer which could be ramped up to bring coal back as a major energy source.
Actually it does, at least for the plant in Mississippi.

But there is another coal plant near completion in the United States that will also capture carbon dioxide — but using a very different approach. It’s the Kemper Plant, being operated by Mississippi Power, a subsidiary of Southern Co., and expected to be operational Jan. 31. This plant has been designed to turn lignite, a type of coal, into a gas called syngas, stripping out some carbon dioxide in the process. The syngas is burned for electricity and the CO2 is then again shipped to an oil field to aid in additional oil recovery.


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Since the creation of the EPA in 1970, we've taken amazing strides to clean up our land, air, and water.... and allow nearly-extinct species like the bald eagle to make a comeback. Now Trump's base, the poorly-educated that he loves, want to roll back those regulations and restrictions and turn us into a nationwide copy of Beijing, all in the name of "jobs." Your other post about AI and automation is spot on; that is our future. Do we want to live in a world where it's safe to breathe, eat foods grown in the soil, and drink the water? Or do we want to destroy the environment for the sake of jobs that are not coming back? Our choice.

Hello ThatOwlWoman,

Thanks for the kind words. Organic and home-grown vegetables as the healthiest food choice. Many conservatives seem to be concerned mainly with their own monetary situation as they overlook the potential tragic long-term consequences of the policies they espouse. It falls upon liberals to remind conservatives of the greater responsibility here. Currently living conservatives are not the only people on the planet, nor should people living today ignore what current actions cause for the future.
 
"Coal Keeps Winning! 4 West Mine (Greene County, PA) Closing - 370 Jobs"

Is this use of the word "winning" an allusion to Trump's campaign promise / prediction?
"We will have so much winning if I get elected, that you may get bored with winning." Republican leading presidential candidate Donald Trump - September, 2015
 
Hello ThatOwlWoman,

Thanks for the kind words. Organic and home-grown vegetables as the healthiest food choice. Many conservatives seem to be concerned mainly with their own monetary situation as they overlook the potential tragic long-term consequences of the policies they espouse. It falls upon liberals to remind conservatives of the greater responsibility here. Currently living conservatives are not the only people on the planet, nor should people living today ignore what current actions cause for the future.
Simple minded nonsense, are you an ex-hippy?

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Hello Ralph,

'Over-regulation' is an opinion. It is to be expected that the people who lost jobs and the billionaires who lost profits are not going to agree with anything which causes that effect. And the billionaires have lots of money to pay for PR and crony capitalism. The internet is going to be full of propaganda pushing that agenda.

Global warming is real. Industrialization is changing our climate. The seas are absorbing more and more CO2. That causes acidification which is killing shellfish and plankton, the very basis of the food chain in the sea. We are wiping out our own food sources! Dirty coal needs to stay in the ground. President Obama was correct to end dirty coal use.

It is incorrect to say coal provides 50% of our electrical energy. Coal now provides just 17% of our energy. Energy in the USA - wiki

It is also incorrect to say that the USA is supposed to be a free market capitalist nation. There is nothing in the Constitution which says this.

Your arguments are packed with opinions, assumptions, misrepresentations and outright falsehoods. No good policy can be produced based on incorrect information.

Coal is our past. Renewable energy is our future.

Global warming is an opinion lol.

Space travel is our future too, but we’re not there yet. As long as there is coal in the ground and a demand for it, there will be coal mines and coal miners.

Kindly stop trying to kill the industry. Thanks!
 
Another coal mine in Pennsylvania is closing, despite the efforts of pro-coal President Donald Trump.

Though Trump has slashed environmental regulations, market forces are hurting coal’s chance for a revival.


The closure of the 4 West Mine in Greene County will cost 370 miners jobs, as StateImpact Pennsylvania recently reported.

Hear about the impact the closing will have on the miners and what the outlook for the coal industry with reporter Reid Frazier:

(NPR - Audio at link)

https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2018/03/13/listen-why-another-pa-coal-mine-is-closing/

:blah::blah::blah::tongout::toilet:

Pathetic. 370 jobs? And for how long?

You do realize how many MORE 'coal jobs' have gone away in the past year, DON'T YOU? But then who needs FACTS, right?


BUSINESS NEWS
JANUARY 19, 2018 / 7:02 AM / 2 MONTHS AGO
Exclusive: Trump's coal job push stumbles in most states - data
Valerie Volcovici
3 MIN READ

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s effort to put coal miners back to work stumbled in most coal producing states last year, even as overall employment in the downtrodden sector grew modestly, according to preliminary government data obtained by Reuters.

Trump made reviving the coal industry, and the declining communities that depend upon its jobs, a central tenet in his presidential campaign and has rolled back Obama-era environmental regulations to give the industry a boost.

But the effort has had little impact on domestic demand for coal so far, with U.S. utilities still shutting coal-fired power plants and shifting to cheaper natural gas - moving toward a lower carbon future despite the direction the White House is plotting under Trump.

Unreleased full-year coal employment data from the Mining Health and Safety Administration shows total U.S. coal mining jobs grew by 771 to 54,819 during Trump’s first year in office, led by Central Appalachian states like West Virginia, Virginia, and Pennsylvania - where coal companies have opened a handful of new mining areas for shipment overseas.

“You know, West Virginia is doing fantastically well,” Trump told Reuters in an interview this week about the state, which gained 1,345 coal jobs last year, according to the data. “It’s great coal.”

But the industry also lost jobs in other Appalachian states like Ohio, Kentucky, and Maryland; the western Powder River Basin states Montana and Wyoming; as well as in several other states like Indiana, New Mexico, and Texas.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...sh-stumbles-in-most-states-data-idUSKBN1F81AK
 
Hello Ralph,

'Over-regulation' is an opinion. It is to be expected that the people who lost jobs and the billionaires who lost profits are not going to agree with anything which causes that effect. And the billionaires have lots of money to pay for PR and crony capitalism. The internet is going to be full of propaganda pushing that agenda.

Global warming is real. Industrialization is changing our climate. The seas are absorbing more and more CO2. That causes acidification which is killing shellfish and plankton, the very basis of the food chain in the sea. We are wiping out our own food sources! Dirty coal needs to stay in the ground. President Obama was correct to end dirty coal use.

It is incorrect to say coal provides 50% of our electrical energy. Coal now provides just 17% of our energy. Energy in the USA - wiki

It is also incorrect to say that the USA is supposed to be a free market capitalist nation. There is nothing in the Constitution which says this.

Your arguments are packed with opinions, assumptions, misrepresentations and outright falsehoods. No good policy can be produced based on incorrect information.

Coal is our past. Renewable energy is our future.

Overregulation is an opinion? Really? When you begin a retort by suggesting that an objective, testable provable FACT is simply an opinion, and then follow it up by declaring that Global Warming is a product of man (as if the Climate has never changed in the history of this planet and is not a natural cyclical occurrence long before the industrial revolution)....and lastly attempt to refute the fact that 49% of this nations power grid depends upon coal production by providing a link that is measuring TOTAL ENERGY OUTLAYS and SOURCES not ELECTRICITY PRODUCTION with FOSSIL FUELS totaling 87.4% of TOTAL energy consumption while the inefficient GREEN ENGRY barley covers 5.6% (with the majority coming from HYDRO Electric production and with others (wind, solar., etc.) providing just 3.1% combined.

Talking about attempting to piss down someone's back and then tell them to relax its ONLY RAIN.

Here is a link to Real MATHEMATICAL STATS.....measuring Electric Power fuel sources. As Mark Twain once said, "Figures never lie.....but liars sure as hell figure." There is a vast difference between Total Energy Consumption (that includes the use of Fossil fuel driven Automobiles, Trains, Buses and a vast network that transports goods through the TRUCKING INDUSTRY. This is what happens when you ASSUME you are the smartest (ass) person in every room you walk into.

Now an objective and testable Truth. Coal did provide almost 50% of this nation's Electric power source......it has came down a bit...thanks to OVERREGULATION and the spiking of production costs (Obama did declare he would bankrupt the coal industry by making it to costly to produce coal)......it was a 49% it dropped to 39% in 2014 and to 33% (still double of the Mark Twain Lie you attempted to get away with by saying that it was just a little over 17%...... its just like a libertarian/socialist lite to attempt to manipulate or omit certain critical stats (figures don't lie....but liars figure)....the reality is the demonstrable and testable fact: Fossil Energy is responsible for over 85% of this nations TOTAL ENERGY CONSUMPTION et.al., Electrical Grid energy production ( reported by your own link).....the next truth....Coal is directly responsible for providing 2x the fuel to make the electric grid possible that you declare as being 17% (a demonstrable and statistical LIE). 2 Reasons that percentage has fallen. Overregulation (as those drops occurred during the Obama Administration as began what he said he would regulate the coal industry in bankruptcy).....the next reason or the drop off? Coals cousin (natural Gas) which is often located around COAL SEAMS ......Obama made it cheaper to use gas than coal....but combine these two job producing cousins and guess what? Add coal and gas production and you get over 50%. Think about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Power_in_the_United_States

The Truth is never subject to refutation. Simply demonstrate to me through the Scientific Process (observable, objective, testable constant REPRODUCILE RESULTS every time this Scientific Experiment is placed to test.....and I will agree with you....but as of now, Man Made Global Warming is simply a consensus OPINION. Much like it was a consensus of all the smart people in the middle ages that propagated a supposed consensus TRUTH, that being the SUN revolved around a FLAT EARTH with the earth being the center of the Universe. A consensus does not make something a FACT. Objective, Provable, Testable, Reproducible SCIENTIFIC experimentation makes a FACT of SCIENCE.
Clearly you did not see the 32 power plants that were shut down during the Obama administration that was working full tilt....that's just an opinion:laugh: A right wing spin. I will point out SPIN to you.

On This man made global warming thing....that you declare as an absolute truth, I suggest that you provide me with one supposed SCIENTIFIC REPORT that does not include popular left wing subjective language such as SUGGESTS, LOOKS LIKE, MIGHT INDICATE, COULD INDICATE...etc., Just one report.....1

If Global Warming (man made.....as it takes aidiot to declare that the CLIMATE never changes with the biggest contributing factor to those changes of climate being that Big Hydrogen Yellow Ball in the sky)......is Real and Provable, there could be no debate possible as mentioned before....facts/truths are not subject to refutation.

Do you not think that attacking this nations source for energy.....fossil fuels, is not a national security concern when the green energy you are pushing costs exponentially more with a capacity of providing less that 10% of this nations energy needs at the current costs...etc.,? Or have you not thought that far ahead? When green energy is competitive to fossil fuel.....then you might have a willing public, but until that time comes this nation still needs national defense.
 
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Part of the problem is progressives want to make a binary issue out of it.

It’s not an either/or thing. Coal may never come back to its glory days—but it’s not going away either. The political mistake Obama/Hillary made was in trying to make it go away.

It’s also a practical mistake. There will probably come a day when the world doesn’t need coal but we aren’t there yet. And by forcing the issue, Obama forced a lot of people out of good paying jobs and onto unemployment. Families suffered, drug and alcohol use went up.

There was a reason WV voted against Obama twice and went landslide for Trump—they knew who had their interests in mind and who didn’t.


You're making up a problem that doesn't exist. Everybody understands that Cole is going to be with us for a long time. Your willingness to live with black lung is disgusting.
 
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