Coercive Interrogations Worked

SmarterThanYou said:
First, our presidents number one task is to protect our rights.

Second, call it what it is. It's not 'enhanced interrogation', it's torture.
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If dead, our rights are pretty meaningless. Our governemnt, which the president is the elected head of, is in place to protect her citizens. Her job is to protect our life, our liberties, and our property. Go split that hair.

A hot iron to the eyes, fingernail pulling, breaking of bones, etc etc etc is torture. If you fail to see the difference between those kinds of practices and 40 seconds of having water poured over your face while having a doctor standing by, then that's your problem.
 
Ice Dancer said:
If dead, our rights are pretty meaningless. Our governemnt, which the president is the elected head of, is in place to protect her citizens. Her job is to protect our life, our liberties, and our property. Go split that hair.
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not a problem.

The President is not head of the government. He's the head of the executive branch alone. since you seem to be unfamiliar with the constitution, i'll give you a brief rundown. It creates 3 separate, but equal, branches of government. Executive, Legislative, and Judicial. Let's take a look at the very beginning of the constitution, shall we?

Preamble:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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See how that works?

Ice Dancer said:
A hot iron to the eyes, fingernail pulling, breaking of bones, etc etc etc is torture. If you fail to see the difference between those kinds of practices and 40 seconds of having water poured over your face while having a doctor standing by, then that's your problem.
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so in your mind, the definition of torture only applies to physical pain and damage. I see. Maybe you need to be waterboarded then and have your eyes and mind opened a bit. I'm guessing that 2 minutes of it would be enough to change your mind.
 
Ice Dancer said:
If dead, our rights are pretty meaningless. Our governemnt, which the president is the elected head of, is in place to protect her citizens. Her job is to protect our life, our liberties, and our property. Go split that hair.
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Thank God for the President taking those difficult decisions to allow those terrible terrorists to be tortured in order to save America.

Without the use of torture we would never have found out that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed murdered the American journalist, Daniel Pearl. We would never have found out that three British residents at Guantanamo appeared alongside Osama bin Laden in one of those 1980's style home videos Al-Qaeda seems so fond of. And we would never have known that Ibn Shaykh al-Libi passed on vital information that Iraq was training Islamic terrorists in the use of WMD.

Except, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed didn't murder Daniel Pearl despite confessing to it under torture.

The three British residents of Guantanamo, known as the 'Tipton Three', didn't appear alongside Osama bin Laden in a propaganda video as, even though they confessed to it under torture, they were working in an electrical shop in the UK at the time.

And Ibn Shaykh al-Libi, despite "remembering" the training in WMD which Iraq provided to Islamic terrorists didn't really "remember" it after all, despite confessing to it under torture and that confession being used, very publicly, as justification for the Iraq War.

This torture lark really is fantastic isn't it? The President must protect Americans at all costs, even against threats which are entirely made up by a man who just wants the pain to stop. Impeccable logic.
 
Ice Dancer said:
If dead, our rights are pretty meaningless. Our governemnt, which the president is the elected head of, is in place to protect her citizens. Her job is to protect our life, our liberties, and our property. Go split that hair.

A hot iron to the eyes, fingernail pulling, breaking of bones, etc etc etc is torture. If you fail to see the difference between those kinds of practices and 40 seconds of having water poured over your face while having a doctor standing by, then that's your problem.
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You're not a big fan of Ben Franklin are you?
 
charver said:
Thank God for the President taking those difficult decisions to allow those terrible terrorists to be tortured in order to save America.

Without the use of torture we would never have found out that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed murdered the American journalist, Daniel Pearl. We would never have found out that three British residents at Guantanamo appeared alongside Osama bin Laden in one of those 1980's style home videos Al-Qaeda seems so fond of. And we would never have known that Ibn Shaykh al-Libi passed on vital information that Iraq was training Islamic terrorists in the use of WMD.

Except, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed didn't murder Daniel Pearl despite confessing to it under torture.

The three British residents of Guantanamo, known as the 'Tipton Three', didn't appear alongside Osama bin Laden in a propaganda video as, even though they confessed to it under torture, they were working in an electrical shop in the UK at the time.

And Ibn Shaykh al-Libi, despite "remembering" the training in WMD which Iraq provided to Islamic terrorists didn't really "remember" it after all, despite confessing to it under torture and that confession being used, very publicly, as justification for the Iraq War.

This torture lark really is fantastic isn't it? The President must protect Americans at all costs, even against threats which are entirely made up by a man who just wants the pain to stop. Impeccable logic.
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Looks like we have a winner.

There is a good op-ed in today's NY Times from a former FBI special investigator concerning the efficacy of torture. Among other things in the op-ed is this gem:

One of the worst consequences of the use of these harsh techniques was that it reintroduced the so-called Chinese wall between the C.I.A. and F.B.I., similar to the communications obstacles that prevented us from working together to stop the 9/11 attacks. Because the bureau would not employ these problematic techniques, our agents who knew the most about the terrorists could have no part in the investigation. An F.B.I. colleague of mine who knew more about Khalid Shaikh Mohammed than anyone in the government was not allowed to speak to him.
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Now, you may remember right-wing shitsticks going ape over Jamie Gorelick and the alleged "wall" in place during the Clinton Administration that prevented information sharing among the FBI and CIA. Well, it looks like Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice and the gang outdid her by a long-shot. But hey, anything for torture I guess.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/opinion/23soufan.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss
 
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charver said:
Thank God for the President taking those difficult decisions to allow those terrible terrorists to be tortured in order to save America.

Without the use of torture we would never have found out that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed murdered the American journalist, Daniel Pearl. We would never have found out that three British residents at Guantanamo appeared alongside Osama bin Laden in one of those 1980's style home videos Al-Qaeda seems so fond of. And we would never have known that Ibn Shaykh al-Libi passed on vital information that Iraq was training Islamic terrorists in the use of WMD.

Except, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed didn't murder Daniel Pearl despite confessing to it under torture.

The three British residents of Guantanamo, known as the 'Tipton Three', didn't appear alongside Osama bin Laden in a propaganda video as, even though they confessed to it under torture, they were working in an electrical shop in the UK at the time.

And Ibn Shaykh al-Libi, despite "remembering" the training in WMD which Iraq provided to Islamic terrorists didn't really "remember" it after all, despite confessing to it under torture and that confession being used, very publicly, as justification for the Iraq War.

This torture lark really is fantastic isn't it? The President must protect Americans at all costs, even against threats which are entirely made up by a man who just wants the pain to stop. Impeccable logic.
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I'm on the phone with NBC right now.

Can you be on the plane to New York in 15 minutes?

I gotta get you your own show.

:)
 
Dungheap said:
That's cute. Now can anyone tell me the difference between those two persons mentioned?
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One spends 4X the other into the deficit (before a budget) and then promises to "halve" it, and says you don't have the right to sue when you are spied on without a warrant by your government.

Can anybody add to the "differences"?
 
ROHRABACHER: Are you in favor releasing the documents that Dick Cheney has been requesting be released?

CLINTON: Well, it won't surprise you that I don't consider him a particularly reliable source of information.

ROHRABACHER: Madam Secretary, I asked you a specific question. Dick Cheney has asked for specific documents to be unclassified. We're not asking for your opinion of Dick Cheney. About those documents. You want to maintain your credibility with us, what is your position on the release of those documents?

CLINTON: Well, Congressman, I believe that we ought to get to the bottom of this entire matter. I think it's in the best interests of our country, and that is what the president believes.
 
charver said:
Thank God for the President taking those difficult decisions to allow those terrible terrorists to be tortured in order to save America.

Without the use of torture we would never have found out that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed murdered the American journalist, Daniel Pearl. We would never have found out that three British residents at Guantanamo appeared alongside Osama bin Laden in one of those 1980's style home videos Al-Qaeda seems so fond of. And we would never have known that Ibn Shaykh al-Libi passed on vital information that Iraq was training Islamic terrorists in the use of WMD.

Except, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed didn't murder Daniel Pearl despite confessing to it under torture.

The three British residents of Guantanamo, known as the 'Tipton Three', didn't appear alongside Osama bin Laden in a propaganda video as, even though they confessed to it under torture, they were working in an electrical shop in the UK at the time.

And Ibn Shaykh al-Libi, despite "remembering" the training in WMD which Iraq provided to Islamic terrorists didn't really "remember" it after all, despite confessing to it under torture and that confession being used, very publicly, as justification for the Iraq War.

This torture lark really is fantastic isn't it? The President must protect Americans at all costs, even against threats which are entirely made up by a man who just wants the pain to stop. Impeccable logic.
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Didn't he do well?
Good post, good post.
 
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