(College) Grade Inflation

cawacko

cawacko

Well-known member
Maybe this only interests me but... I was listening to the bi-weekly Glenn Loury and John McWhorter podcast (both are Ivy League professors) and they were discussing grade inflation (for the life of me I can't post the clip). They were responding to a study that showed grades at the average grades at Harvard had risen from mid 2.0's in the mid 20th century to 3.8 GPA today and are kids that much smarter?

The gist was Professor Loury said he would NEVER give a C. He said there would be nuclear meltdowns from both the kid and their parents. And he wouldn't want to deal with it. Professor McWhorter said a kid has to do pretty poorly in his class to get even a B. Neither liked that this was occurring but said it's not worth the effort and battle that would ensue to try to be the individual professor to buck the system.

I don't know if others here experience this but I interview a fair number of kids out of college. And many like to say they graduated cum laude or summa/magna cum laude. Old school me is impressed by this. New school me just kind of rolls my eyes inside when I hear this. It in no way carries the same weight that it used to.
 
After first serving in the military directly after high school,
my son graduated magna cum laude in 1999, I believe.

My daughter graduated summa cum laude in 2000, studying one year in London.

I and the gestapo graduated in 1968 and 1969 respectively,
primarily so that our respective schools could get us the hell off campus.

Yet, 23 and Me insists that we're both actually their biological parents.
Was this grade inflation thing already happening 25 years ago?
 
NiftyNiblick said:
After first serving in the military directly after high school,
my son graduated magna cum laude in 1999, I believe.

My daughter graduated summa cum laude in 2000, studying one year in London.

I and the gestapo graduated in 1968 and 1969 respectively,
primarily so that our respective schools could get us the hell off campus.

Yet, 23 and Me insists that we're both actually their biological parents.
Was this grade inflation thing already happening 25 years ago?
Click to expand...
I graduated THANK THE LAUDE
 
NiftyNiblick said:
After first serving in the military directly after high school,
my son graduated magna cum laude in 1999, I believe.

My daughter graduated summa cum laude in 2000, studying one year in London.

I and the gestapo graduated in 1968 and 1969 respectively,
primarily so that our respective schools could get us the hell off campus.

Yet, 23 and Me insists that we're both actually their biological parents.
Was this grade inflation thing already happening 25 years ago?
Click to expand...
Yes it was occurring during your kids time in school and it has accelerated even more in recent times.
 
Grades have been compromised forever. It is well known that the children of the wealthy and powerful do not get the same rules we did. They called them "gentlemen "C's. They would never flunk out a school benefactor's , or wealthy powerful person's kids so matter what they did.
 
cawacko said:
A "gentleman's C" was something from the '50's. That was a long time ago. A kid in the 1950's getting a 3.8 GPA was eye opening. Today it means very little.
Click to expand...
Downgrading of the standards just to push people through the system. Some cities have eliminated the testing of reading and math for high school graduation.

"In public education’s latest blunder, the Oregon Department of Education has just decided that basic reading, writing and math skills are not required for students to graduate with a high school diploma."
 
NiftyNiblick said:
After first serving in the military directly after high school,
my son graduated magna cum laude in 1999, I believe.

My daughter graduated summa cum laude in 2000, studying one year in London.

I and the gestapo graduated in 1968 and 1969 respectively,
primarily so that our respective schools could get us the hell off campus.

Yet, 23 and Me insists that we're both actually their biological parents.
Was this grade inflation thing already happening 25 years ago?
Click to expand...
I graduated with my Gentleman C, a major in psychology and a minor in Beer and Women. W00t!

Ten years later when I earned my MS, it was all A's and one B. During job interviews I was asked about the difference. My reply was generally "More maturity and more focus".
 
cawacko said:
A "gentleman's C" was something from the '50's. That was a long time ago. A kid in the 1950's getting a 3.8 GPA was eye opening. Today it means very little.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Hence other methods must be used when interviewing applicants including scouring their social media and giving them tests.

It doesn't matter if a person has a 4.0 and graduated Summa cum laude, if they can't pass IQ, knowledge and psych tests, then they aren't suitable for the job.
 
Lionfish said:
Downgrading of the standards just to push people through the system. Some cities have eliminated the testing of reading and math for high school graduation.

"In public education’s latest blunder, the Oregon Department of Education has just decided that basic reading, writing and math skills are not required for students to graduate with a high school diploma."
Click to expand...
For this thread I'm talking specifically about college. I think at the elite schools there is a concern that if you grade the kids harder they will go elsewhere. On one hand you wouldn't think a school with a 4% acceptance rate would care about that, but they do.

It's this whole charade of 'if I don't get a 4.0 then I won't get hired on Wall St or by some consulting firm and my life will be over'. And thus, even the elite of the elite want to make sure they aren't the school known as the 'tough graders'.
 
The last time I saw the AVERAGE GPA of freshman entering LSU vet school it was 3.9.
In my day a 3.0 and a decent MCAT would guarantee acceptance.
One of my best friends’ daughter was rejected from LSU dental school with a 4.0 GPA because her DAT scores were only “average”.
She got in the next year after studying then killing the DAT.
Maybe it’s good they place more weight on those entrance exams since GPAs are far less meaningful today.
 
cawacko said:
For this thread I'm talking specifically about college. I think at the elite schools there is a concern that if you grade the kids harder they will go elsewhere. On one hand you wouldn't think a school with a 4% acceptance rate would care about that, but they do.

It's this whole charade of 'if I don't get a 4.0 then I won't get hired on Wall St or by some consulting firm and my life will be over'. And thus, even the elite of the elite want to make sure they aren't the school known as the 'tough graders'.
Click to expand...
Multiple choice tests would show the true difference in students’ abilities.
And they can be made super difficult.
I remember the microbiology tests in professional school.
The choices would be :
a.
b.
c.
d. a and b are correct
e, b and c are correct
f. a and c are correct
e. none are correct

You have to know the material inside and out which really separates the wheat from the chaff.
A classmate that was from Tulane undergrad had a real hard time. He said the tests there were mostly essay which left a lot of wiggle room.
At the time there was a saying about Tulane and Loyola - pay your fees, get your Bs.
 
Last edited:
cawacko said:
Maybe this only interests me but... I was listening to the bi-weekly Glenn Loury and John McWhorter podcast (both are Ivy League professors) and they were discussing grade inflation (for the life of me I can't post the clip). They were responding to a study that showed grades at the average grades at Harvard had risen from mid 2.0's in the mid 20th century to 3.8 GPA today and are kids that much smarter?

The gist was Professor Loury said he would NEVER give a C. He said there would be nuclear meltdowns from both the kid and their parents. And he wouldn't want to deal with it. Professor McWhorter said a kid has to do pretty poorly in his class to get even a B. Neither liked that this was occurring but said it's not worth the effort and battle that would ensue to try to be the individual professor to buck the system.

I don't know if others here experience this but I interview a fair number of kids out of college. And many like to say they graduated cum laude or summa/magna cum laude. Old school me is impressed by this. New school me just kind of rolls my eyes inside when I hear this. It in no way carries the same weight that it used to.
Click to expand...
When I was in college, it was my observation that a large percentage of really good grades were begged for, or pretty girls asking the professor for them.

Even just buttering up the professor by spending hours in their office worked.
 
Lionfish said:
Downgrading of the standards just to push people through the system. Some cities have eliminated the testing of reading and math for high school graduation.

"In public education’s latest blunder, the Oregon Department of Education has just decided that basic reading, writing and math skills are not required for students to graduate with a high school diploma."
Click to expand...
I have a daughter in HS here in Oregon and I'm appalled at how they hand out A grades like bubble gum these days.

I was third in my class in HS with a 3.85 GPA and the graduating class at my daughters HS has 15 students with 4.0s. These are not super smart or motivated kids more than we were. Even our Valedictorian was only 3.9 something.

We had a PE teacher who was also the Football coach. I refused to play football for the asshole after my freshman year and he fucked me hard for it in 10th grade. If you were tardy to PE your grade was automatically dropped one level was his rule he never enforced except for me. I got 2 C s in PE in my sophomore year because the PE teacher was a prick and I was in fact late after dressing down. Like 15 seconds late. If those would have been A s I would have been valedictorian. He left after my junior year and I had a good senior year on the field. I suspect he's dead now and good riddance.

The curriculum was harder back in my day there is little doubt about it seeing what they are passing off as such now days. It's a bad joke.
 
Jarod said:
When I was in college, it was my observation that a large percentage of really good grades were begged for, or pretty girls asking the professor for them.

Even just buttering up the professor by spending hours in their office worked.
Click to expand...
McWhorter mentioned students come to his office asking what else they can do (like additional assignments) to improve their grades. He commented 'I tell them to do better on the work I already assign'.

That said, he still grades pretty leniently.
 
anonymoose said:
Multiple choice tests would show the true difference in students’ abilities.
And they can be made super difficult.
I remember the microbiology tests in professional school.
The choices would be :
a.
b.
c.
d. a and b are correct
e, b and c are correct
f. a and c are correct
e. none are correct

You have to know the material inside and out which really separates the wheat from the chaff.
A classmate that was from Tulane undergrad had a real hard time. He said the tests there were mostly essay which left a lot of wiggle room.
At the time there was a saying about Tulane and Loyola - pay your fees, get your Bs.
Click to expand...
I know of a private medical school that has the reputation as the best degree that money can buy. I never go to a doctor that graduated from there. I have worked with recent grads from Harvard Medical school. They were not superstars to say the least.
 
Jarod said:
When I was in college, it was my observation that a large percentage of really good grades were begged for, or pretty girls asking the professor for them.

Even just buttering up the professor by spending hours in their office worked.
Click to expand...
My undergrad organic chemistry score was teetering between a B and an A. A retired Nun taught the class. I came from work to take the class. I'd pick up burgers from a great burger place on the way. I always brought an extra one for the professor. I got my A. :laugh:
 
cawacko said:
McWhorter mentioned students come to his office asking what else they can do (like additional assignments) to improve their grades. He commented 'I tell them to do better on the work I already assign'.

That said, he still grades pretty leniently.
Click to expand...
I went to a church based college for most of my undergrad. I had a professor that I liked a lot. She would give the same basic prayer before every test. God please let these students remember the things they studied. :laugh:
 
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