Conservative myth of the day. #2.

Mott the Hoople

Sweet Jane
Myth: America is a conservative country.

Reality: America was born in its day as a radically liberal experiment, and has only become progressively more liberal over the past 230 years.
Let's always keep our fundamental definitions of the political ideologies of liberal and conservative in mind:


Liberal: favorable to progress or reform, open minded, tolerant, creative, promoting ever greater liberty, equality, justice and pursuit of happiness; generally opposing aristocratic and unequal hierarchies.


Conservative: fearful of change, inflexible and unimaginative, disposed to conserve traditional hierarchies, institutions and traditions.
It is true that many Americans consider themselves religious, as well as prudent and frugal, and so they may think of themselves as "conservative." So this is how the big myth that "America is a conservative country" seems to have the ring of truth, and remains popular. But these are not exclusively conservative traits by any stretch. One can be extremely liberal and still be religious, prudent and frugal. The majority of Americans may be a lot more liberal than they think. And as a whole, keeping those standard definitions in mind, America is way more liberal than conservative.

Anyone who wishes to expand liberty, equality, justice, pursuit of happiness, and love for one another is a liberal. If you really believe in the equality and capabilities of the common person; if you believe we are all in this together, as in "We the People," and "Love One Another", then you're a liberal. It's as simple as that.

On the other hand, if you distrust others who don't look like you or believe like you, and you'd really like to impose your will on them or exploit them; if you long to return to some mythical America that existed sometime in the past; if you actually like the old unequal traditions, hierarchies and institutions and wish to conserve them... if you really think white people are superior to brown or black, males are superior to females, and rich are superior to poor, this is the way it has always been and always should be... hello, you are a conservative!

Conservative social ideology has taken a whipping through American history. Why? Because the vast majority of Americans are simply not very conservative. Oh sure, there are large patches of the nation that are conservative, and pockets of conservatism around every corner. And sometimes they even win elections and manage to turn back progress a notch or two. But sooner or later their ideas end up getting flattened as the wheels of liberal progress get moving again.

To become a conservative country, America would have to dismantle its liberal ideals. Instead, it is these very ideals that propel America to become more and more liberal. What did the founding fathers think would happen when they voted for a Declaration of Independence that included the phrase "All men are created equal..." and possess the "inalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?" What did they have in mind when they established a Constitution for "We the People and set up a government to promote the general welfare?

How far America has come in its great liberal experiment! Ideals that the founding fathers themselves could only give to America as idea-seeds, successive generations of Americans have brought to fruition. The Louisiana Purchase, emancipation of the slaves, votes for all adult citizens, public education, women's liberation, Native American rights, workers' rights and safety, food and drug safety, banking and commerce regulation, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, national parks, environmental protection, civil rights, the Interstate Highway System, the space program, medical discoveries, disease control, weather science and so much more... constant pursuit of a "more perfect union." These are the great liberal achievements of this great country... and each and every one of them was opposed by conservatives of their day!

Conversely, from witch-burning to the Tories to the stealing of Indian lands and breaking of treaties to secession and Civil War to Jim Crow lynchings to serial banking panics and busts to industrial abuses to Prohibition to the Depression to McCarthyism and Communist fear-mongering to today's crony corporatocracy and out-of-control militarism, conservative ideas have generally evoked the very worst episodes of our national story.

As you sit there reading this, conservatives are busily trying their hardest to deny liberty, equality, justice and pursuit of happiness for union members, gay, lesbian, transgender, Muslim and Hispanic citizens. They have no intention of actually loving any of these "others," as Jesus commanded them to. Instead, incoherently, they direct their "love" toward the hierarchy of the richest of the rich, and the most powerful of the powerful... the very ones who Jesus said have as much chance of getting into heaven as a camel through the eye of a needle! They have even distorted patriotism to where it now requires loyalty to corporations... yes, the very same corporations that have stolen us blind, polluted our planet, shipped jobs overseas and relocated their headquarters to a post office box in Bermuda to avoid paying American taxes have conservatives swooning in slavish devotion!

Conservatism! Always a messy sight.

But most Americans do not share this craziness. They don't swear blind allegiance to the rich or corporations or even a "free market;" they want a fair market. They want good public schools, safe working conditions, safe food, safe drugs, a clean environment. They support Social Security and Medicare and the idea of a social contract whereby we all help each other. They support the government supporting the arts and sciences in addition to the armed forces. The believe in the U.S. government helping out in natural disasters at home and abroad. They support the idea of the United Nations. They think for themselves and do not fear change or want to perpetuate hoary old hierarchies that lock in white, male, rich advantage over all others. They elected Woodrow Wilson (twice), Franklin Roosevelt (thrice), Harry Truman, John F. Kennedy (a Catholic), Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton (twice), and even stunned and inspired the world by voting in unprecedented numbers to elect a black man named Barack Hussein Obama president (TWICE)! In other words, they are substantially more liberal than they are conservative.

Indeed, after Obama's reelection, Fox News main anchor, Brit Hume, finally admitted, "This tells us something about moderates: A lot of people who call themselves that are actually liberal, more liberal than many of us thought."

And this is rather the rub for conservatives. They know they are losing the "cultural war," and that's why they are so angry and afraid. What most of them don't realize is that this "cultural war" is not new. They've been losing this "war" for hundreds of years. More than any other group of people, social conservatives are oblivious to their own ideological history. Instead they imbibe a rosy mythology of some ideal America that existed a short time back, and needs to be reclaimed by bringing back "traditional values." If they could only impose these values on everybody else, America could be great again. They can't go into too much detail about when this ideal timeframe was, or what such a renewed America would actually look like, just that it wouldn't be so liberal.

It's the fervent conservative fantasy: return to an era that never really existed. So even in their dreams the conservatives themselves pay homage to how liberal America really is, and will remain as long as the founding ideals light the way.
 
Liberal: favorable to progress or reform, open minded, tolerant, creative, promoting ever greater liberty, equality, justice and pursuit of happiness; generally opposing aristocratic and unequal hierarchies.

there's the problem.....you don't realize liberal means dishonest, ignorant, self-centered, manipulative and hateful........using your definition the only liberals on the board are conservatives.....
 
Those qualifying today as liberals are a far , far cry from the classic liberal of over a century past. Today's liberal is far more socialist/communist bent with a mix of stupidity tossed in and amplified for good measure.
 
there's the problem.....you don't realize liberal means dishonest, ignorant, self-centered, manipulative and hateful........using your definition the only liberals on the board are conservatives.....

I don't recall ever seeing that in the Merriam Webster's dictionary.

Those qualifying today as liberals are a far , far cry from the classic liberal of over a century past. Today's liberal is far more socialist/communist bent with a mix of stupidity tossed in and amplified for good measure.

In reality, today's liberals are far more center leaning than the liberals of decades ago. But what do you know about reality?
 
Myth: America is a conservative country.

Reality: America was born in its day as a radically liberal experiment, and has only become progressively more liberal over the past 230 years.
Let's always keep our fundamental definitions of the political ideologies of liberal and conservative in mind:


Liberal: favorable to progress or reform, open minded, tolerant, creative, promoting ever greater liberty, equality, justice and pursuit of happiness; generally opposing aristocratic and unequal hierarchies.


Conservative: fearful of change, inflexible and unimaginative, disposed to conserve traditional hierarchies, institutions and traditions.
It is true that many Americans consider themselves religious, as well as prudent and frugal, and so they may think of themselves as "conservative." So this is how the big myth that "America is a conservative country" seems to have the ring of truth, and remains popular. But these are not exclusively conservative traits by any stretch. One can be extremely liberal and still be religious, prudent and frugal. The majority of Americans may be a lot more liberal than they think. And as a whole, keeping those standard definitions in mind, America is way more liberal than conservative.

Anyone who wishes to expand liberty, equality, justice, pursuit of happiness, and love for one another is a liberal. If you really believe in the equality and capabilities of the common person; if you believe we are all in this together, as in "We the People," and "Love One Another", then you're a liberal. It's as simple as that.

On the other hand, if you distrust others who don't look like you or believe like you, and you'd really like to impose your will on them or exploit them; if you long to return to some mythical America that existed sometime in the past; if you actually like the old unequal traditions, hierarchies and institutions and wish to conserve them... if you really think white people are superior to brown or black, males are superior to females, and rich are superior to poor, this is the way it has always been and always should be... hello, you are a conservative!

Conservative social ideology has taken a whipping through American history. Why? Because the vast majority of Americans are simply not very conservative. Oh sure, there are large patches of the nation that are conservative, and pockets of conservatism around every corner. And sometimes they even win elections and manage to turn back progress a notch or two. But sooner or later their ideas end up getting flattened as the wheels of liberal progress get moving again.

To become a conservative country, America would have to dismantle its liberal ideals. Instead, it is these very ideals that propel America to become more and more liberal. What did the founding fathers think would happen when they voted for a Declaration of Independence that included the phrase "All men are created equal..." and possess the "inalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?" What did they have in mind when they established a Constitution for "We the People and set up a government to promote the general welfare?

How far America has come in its great liberal experiment! Ideals that the founding fathers themselves could only give to America as idea-seeds, successive generations of Americans have brought to fruition. The Louisiana Purchase, emancipation of the slaves, votes for all adult citizens, public education, women's liberation, Native American rights, workers' rights and safety, food and drug safety, banking and commerce regulation, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, national parks, environmental protection, civil rights, the Interstate Highway System, the space program, medical discoveries, disease control, weather science and so much more... constant pursuit of a "more perfect union." These are the great liberal achievements of this great country... and each and every one of them was opposed by conservatives of their day!

Conversely, from witch-burning to the Tories to the stealing of Indian lands and breaking of treaties to secession and Civil War to Jim Crow lynchings to serial banking panics and busts to industrial abuses to Prohibition to the Depression to McCarthyism and Communist fear-mongering to today's crony corporatocracy and out-of-control militarism, conservative ideas have generally evoked the very worst episodes of our national story.

As you sit there reading this, conservatives are busily trying their hardest to deny liberty, equality, justice and pursuit of happiness for union members, gay, lesbian, transgender, Muslim and Hispanic citizens. They have no intention of actually loving any of these "others," as Jesus commanded them to. Instead, incoherently, they direct their "love" toward the hierarchy of the richest of the rich, and the most powerful of the powerful... the very ones who Jesus said have as much chance of getting into heaven as a camel through the eye of a needle! They have even distorted patriotism to where it now requires loyalty to corporations... yes, the very same corporations that have stolen us blind, polluted our planet, shipped jobs overseas and relocated their headquarters to a post office box in Bermuda to avoid paying American taxes have conservatives swooning in slavish devotion!

Conservatism! Always a messy sight.

But most Americans do not share this craziness. They don't swear blind allegiance to the rich or corporations or even a "free market;" they want a fair market. They want good public schools, safe working conditions, safe food, safe drugs, a clean environment. They support Social Security and Medicare and the idea of a social contract whereby we all help each other. They support the government supporting the arts and sciences in addition to the armed forces. The believe in the U.S. government helping out in natural disasters at home and abroad. They support the idea of the United Nations. They think for themselves and do not fear change or want to perpetuate hoary old hierarchies that lock in white, male, rich advantage over all others. They elected Woodrow Wilson (twice), Franklin Roosevelt (thrice), Harry Truman, John F. Kennedy (a Catholic), Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton (twice), and even stunned and inspired the world by voting in unprecedented numbers to elect a black man named Barack Hussein Obama president (TWICE)! In other words, they are substantially more liberal than they are conservative.

Indeed, after Obama's reelection, Fox News main anchor, Brit Hume, finally admitted, "This tells us something about moderates: A lot of people who call themselves that are actually liberal, more liberal than many of us thought."

And this is rather the rub for conservatives. They know they are losing the "cultural war," and that's why they are so angry and afraid. What most of them don't realize is that this "cultural war" is not new. They've been losing this "war" for hundreds of years. More than any other group of people, social conservatives are oblivious to their own ideological history. Instead they imbibe a rosy mythology of some ideal America that existed a short time back, and needs to be reclaimed by bringing back "traditional values." If they could only impose these values on everybody else, America could be great again. They can't go into too much detail about when this ideal timeframe was, or what such a renewed America would actually look like, just that it wouldn't be so liberal.

It's the fervent conservative fantasy: return to an era that never really existed. So even in their dreams the conservatives themselves pay homage to how liberal America really is, and will remain as long as the founding ideals light the way.

The trouble with that though Mott, it doesn't explain how Mrs. T tamed the unions, privatised nationalised industries, brought the Conservative Party into the late 20th century, took on the breweries, took on the legal system, kicked the shit out of Galtieri, took on the EU, turned around the economy and oversaw the Big Bang in the City.
 
The trouble with that though Mott, it doesn't explain how Mrs. T tamed the unions, privatised nationalised industries, brought the Conservative Party into the late 20th century, took on the breweries, took on the legal system, kicked the shit out of Galtieri, took on the EU, turned around the economy and oversaw the Big Bang in the City.
Ahh yes but by the UK's standards what passes for a liberal in the US would be a center right moderate in the UK. Also, lets not confuse "liberal" with "left wing". They are not always the same.....which is another conservative mythology.
 
Ahh yes but by the UK's standards what passes for a liberal in the US would be a center right moderate in the UK. Also, lets not confuse "liberal" with "left wing". They are not always the same.....which is another conservative mythology.

There is much in what you say but then again there are blue dog liberals, liberals and progressive liberals. I would classify the latter as left wing.
 
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Yes, Mott, those traits listed at the beginning of the stupid piece are exclusively conservative. It even got that wrong!
 
Liberal: favorable to progress or reform, open minded, tolerant, creative, promoting ever greater liberty, equality, justice and pursuit of happiness; generally opposing aristocratic and unequal hierarchies.

1) Try to reform Social Security or Medicare... see who is open to that idea and who fights it tooth and nail with fear mongering
2) Open minded? obviously that does not describe today's 'liberals'
3) Promoting greater liberty?... from the party that wishes to constrict the rights of individuals regarding the second amendment? From the party that wants to force everyone into government health care? From the party that wants the government to tax more and spend more and become a bigger and bigger part of our lives? Yeah, liberals today do not promote greater liberty.
4) 'Liberals' (at least those in government office) are every bit the culprit in the Ivy League/Wall St/DC political elitism that conservatives in DC are. They just are better at hiding their boot heels on the throats of those they supposedly fight for.
 
I wish we spent less time debating who is what. I understand we need our labels, but most of time people use them to provoke instead of explaining something.

It doesn't help that much.
 
TLTR, but I did make it through the opening paragraph, so that is what I will comment on:

Myth: America is a conservative country.

Reality: America was born in its day as a radically liberal experiment, and has only become progressively more liberal over the past 230 years.
Let's always keep our fundamental definitions of the political ideologies of liberal and conservative in mind:


Liberal: favorable to progress or reform, open minded, tolerant, creative, promoting ever greater liberty, equality, justice and pursuit of happiness; generally opposing aristocratic and unequal hierarchies.


Conservative: fearful of change, inflexible and unimaginative, disposed to conserve traditional hierarchies, institutions and traditions.
It is true that many Americans consider themselves religious, as well as prudent and frugal, and so they may think of themselves as "conservative." So this is how the big myth that "America is a conservative country" seems to have the ring of truth, and remains popular. But these are not exclusively conservative traits by any stretch. One can be extremely liberal and still be religious, prudent and frugal. The majority of Americans may be a lot more liberal than they think. And as a whole, keeping those standard definitions in mind, America is way more liberal than conservative.

And one can be Conservative, and still be favorable to progress or reform, open minded, tolerant, creative, promoting ever greater liberty, equality, justice and pursuit of happiness; generally opposing aristocratic and unequal hierarchies.

What the author has done, is painted a stereotype, and portends to tell us how his stereotype means something other than bigoted ignorance. PEOPLE are a mixture of Conservative AND Liberal viewpoints, for the most part. This varies, not by region or even state and city, but within households. No two people have the exact same political viewpoint on every single issue a political view can be made, we are all different. Some of us share a lot of similar views, to some of us, certain views are more important than others, and this all varies from person to person as well. Until we start to realize that we are all different, and we have differing degrees of "liberal" or "conservative" viewpoints, we can't really have any meaningful rational dialogue. We're too busy placing people in boxes with labels and attacking people who aren't in our own box.
 
Myth: America is a conservative country.

Reality: America was born in its day as a radically liberal experiment, and has only become progressively more liberal over the past 230 years.
Let's always keep our fundamental definitions of the political ideologies of liberal and conservative in mind:


Liberal: favorable to progress or reform, open minded, tolerant, creative, promoting ever greater liberty, equality, justice and pursuit of happiness; generally opposing aristocratic and unequal hierarchies.


Conservative: fearful of change, inflexible and unimaginative, disposed to conserve traditional hierarchies, institutions and traditions.
It is true that many Americans consider themselves religious, as well as prudent and frugal, and so they may think of themselves as "conservative." So this is how the big myth that "America is a conservative country" seems to have the ring of truth, and remains popular. But these are not exclusively conservative traits by any stretch. One can be extremely liberal and still be religious, prudent and frugal. The majority of Americans may be a lot more liberal than they think. And as a whole, keeping those standard definitions in mind, America is way more liberal than conservative.

Anyone who wishes to expand liberty, equality, justice, pursuit of happiness, and love for one another is a liberal. If you really believe in the equality and capabilities of the common person; if you believe we are all in this together, as in "We the People," and "Love One Another", then you're a liberal. It's as simple as that.

On the other hand, if you distrust others who don't look like you or believe like you, and you'd really like to impose your will on them or exploit them; if you long to return to some mythical America that existed sometime in the past; if you actually like the old unequal traditions, hierarchies and institutions and wish to conserve them... if you really think white people are superior to brown or black, males are superior to females, and rich are superior to poor, this is the way it has always been and always should be... hello, you are a conservative!

Conservative social ideology has taken a whipping through American history. Why? Because the vast majority of Americans are simply not very conservative. Oh sure, there are large patches of the nation that are conservative, and pockets of conservatism around every corner. And sometimes they even win elections and manage to turn back progress a notch or two. But sooner or later their ideas end up getting flattened as the wheels of liberal progress get moving again.

To become a conservative country, America would have to dismantle its liberal ideals. Instead, it is these very ideals that propel America to become more and more liberal. What did the founding fathers think would happen when they voted for a Declaration of Independence that included the phrase "All men are created equal..." and possess the "inalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?" What did they have in mind when they established a Constitution for "We the People and set up a government to promote the general welfare?

How far America has come in its great liberal experiment! Ideals that the founding fathers themselves could only give to America as idea-seeds, successive generations of Americans have brought to fruition. The Louisiana Purchase, emancipation of the slaves, votes for all adult citizens, public education, women's liberation, Native American rights, workers' rights and safety, food and drug safety, banking and commerce regulation, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, national parks, environmental protection, civil rights, the Interstate Highway System, the space program, medical discoveries, disease control, weather science and so much more... constant pursuit of a "more perfect union." These are the great liberal achievements of this great country... and each and every one of them was opposed by conservatives of their day!

Conversely, from witch-burning to the Tories to the stealing of Indian lands and breaking of treaties to secession and Civil War to Jim Crow lynchings to serial banking panics and busts to industrial abuses to Prohibition to the Depression to McCarthyism and Communist fear-mongering to today's crony corporatocracy and out-of-control militarism, conservative ideas have generally evoked the very worst episodes of our national story.

As you sit there reading this, conservatives are busily trying their hardest to deny liberty, equality, justice and pursuit of happiness for union members, gay, lesbian, transgender, Muslim and Hispanic citizens. They have no intention of actually loving any of these "others," as Jesus commanded them to. Instead, incoherently, they direct their "love" toward the hierarchy of the richest of the rich, and the most powerful of the powerful... the very ones who Jesus said have as much chance of getting into heaven as a camel through the eye of a needle! They have even distorted patriotism to where it now requires loyalty to corporations... yes, the very same corporations that have stolen us blind, polluted our planet, shipped jobs overseas and relocated their headquarters to a post office box in Bermuda to avoid paying American taxes have conservatives swooning in slavish devotion!

Conservatism! Always a messy sight.

But most Americans do not share this craziness. They don't swear blind allegiance to the rich or corporations or even a "free market;" they want a fair market. They want good public schools, safe working conditions, safe food, safe drugs, a clean environment. They support Social Security and Medicare and the idea of a social contract whereby we all help each other. They support the government supporting the arts and sciences in addition to the armed forces. The believe in the U.S. government helping out in natural disasters at home and abroad. They support the idea of the United Nations. They think for themselves and do not fear change or want to perpetuate hoary old hierarchies that lock in white, male, rich advantage over all others. They elected Woodrow Wilson (twice), Franklin Roosevelt (thrice), Harry Truman, John F. Kennedy (a Catholic), Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton (twice), and even stunned and inspired the world by voting in unprecedented numbers to elect a black man named Barack Hussein Obama president (TWICE)! In other words, they are substantially more liberal than they are conservative.

Indeed, after Obama's reelection, Fox News main anchor, Brit Hume, finally admitted, "This tells us something about moderates: A lot of people who call themselves that are actually liberal, more liberal than many of us thought."

And this is rather the rub for conservatives. They know they are losing the "cultural war," and that's why they are so angry and afraid. What most of them don't realize is that this "cultural war" is not new. They've been losing this "war" for hundreds of years. More than any other group of people, social conservatives are oblivious to their own ideological history. Instead they imbibe a rosy mythology of some ideal America that existed a short time back, and needs to be reclaimed by bringing back "traditional values." If they could only impose these values on everybody else, America could be great again. They can't go into too much detail about when this ideal timeframe was, or what such a renewed America would actually look like, just that it wouldn't be so liberal.

It's the fervent conservative fantasy: return to an era that never really existed. So even in their dreams the conservatives themselves pay homage to how liberal America really is, and will remain as long as the founding ideals light the way.

originally, the point of conservatism was to slow down liberal legislation, however, it has taken on the job of dismantling anything liberal and/or preventing any liberal programs

part of the problems that conservatives face, is the rapid changes in social programs brought on by the rapid increase in communication

the scientists are creating change far faster than many people can handle (see the book future shock)
 
The trouble with that though Mott, it doesn't explain how Mrs. T tamed the unions, privatised nationalised industries, brought the Conservative Party into the late 20th century, took on the breweries, took on the legal system, kicked the shit out of Galtieri, took on the EU, turned around the economy and oversaw the Big Bang in the City.

the explnation is too many people fear change that they cannot understand

an example of rapid change happened to me when i studied chemistry. electron shell theory changed from when i studied chemistry in 1962 in high school and when i studied it in 1964 in college

fortunately for me, i studied software engineering and was barely able to keep up with the changes in the field, while physical engineering had a job life expectancy of 20 years (assuming that the engineer spent at least four hours a week keeping up in the field), am electrical engineer had a job life expectancy of 15 years (assuming that the engineer spent at least 4 hours a week keeping up in the field) and an electronics engineer had a job life expectancy of 10 years assuming that the engineer spent 4 fours a week keeping up in the field'

or they were fortunate enough to work for an organization that helped them keep up in their fields
 
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