Constitutional Challenges to Dem's Forced Socialist Healthcare

KingCondanomation

New member
This is great and though we all can't stop the push to halt this dangerous massive spending and intrusive bullshit flying under the name of healthcare "reform", at least if it does pass as the far left are trying to push it, then there is a good chance it will be struck down as unconstitutional.
In fact there are THREE different ways it could be struck down, at least one of them hopefully will be successful

"First is a broad challenge on states’ rights grounds, particularly with respect to health care. In Gonzales v Oregon, which concerned that state’s assisted-suicide law, the government argued that doctors who prescribe lethal doses of medication violate federal law. The Supreme Court rejected that, believing it would constitute “a radical shift of authority from states to the federal government to define general standards of medical practice in every locality.”

Second, the Supreme Court has recognised a right to medical self-determination, notably finding it within the Fifth Amendment’s due-process clause. An individual mandate could violate that right by restricting choices of doctors or procedures.

The last and strongest argument concerns the government’s power to require the purchase of health insurance under the commerce clause. The non-partisan Congressional Research Service found this the most challenging constitutional question related to health-care reform, as the commerce clause, the clause in the constitution that allows the federal government to regulate trade between the states, has never before been used to require that citizens buy a good or service. "
http://www.economist.com/world/united-states/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15721539

As a plea to Dems on here, abandon this bullshit as even if you pass it, it will go down and you end with nothing but looking like Constitution violators.


People should be free to NOT be forced to buy healthcare insurance, it is good to have but it is wrong to force anyone to buy something in the name of protecting them from themselves. And we cannot afford even the existing healthcare we have right now anyway.
 
This is great and though we all can't stop the push to halt this dangerous massive spending and intrusive bullshit flying under the name of healthcare "reform", at least if it does pass as the far left are trying to push it, then there is a good chance it will be struck down as unconstitutional.
In fact there are THREE different ways it could be struck down, at least one of them hopefully will be successful

"First is a broad challenge on states’ rights grounds, particularly with respect to health care. In Gonzales v Oregon, which concerned that state’s assisted-suicide law, the government argued that doctors who prescribe lethal doses of medication violate federal law. The Supreme Court rejected that, believing it would constitute “a radical shift of authority from states to the federal government to define general standards of medical practice in every locality.”

Second, the Supreme Court has recognised a right to medical self-determination, notably finding it within the Fifth Amendment’s due-process clause. An individual mandate could violate that right by restricting choices of doctors or procedures.

The last and strongest argument concerns the government’s power to require the purchase of health insurance under the commerce clause. The non-partisan Congressional Research Service found this the most challenging constitutional question related to health-care reform, as the commerce clause, the clause in the constitution that allows the federal government to regulate trade between the states, has never before been used to require that citizens buy a good or service. "
http://www.economist.com/world/united-states/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15721539

As a plea to Dems on here, abandon this bullshit as even if you pass it, it will go down and you end with nothing but looking like Constitution violators.


People should be free to NOT be forced to buy healthcare insurance, it is good to have but it is wrong to force anyone to buy something in the name of protecting them from themselves. And we cannot afford even the existing healthcare we have right now anyway.

Yeah, it's really amazing how this administration thinks they can get away with it.
 
This is great and though we all can't stop the push to halt this dangerous massive spending and intrusive bullshit flying under the name of healthcare "reform", at least if it does pass as the far left are trying to push it, then there is a good chance it will be struck down as unconstitutional.
In fact there are THREE different ways it could be struck down, at least one of them hopefully will be successful

"First is a broad challenge on states’ rights grounds, particularly with respect to health care. In Gonzales v Oregon, which concerned that state’s assisted-suicide law, the government argued that doctors who prescribe lethal doses of medication violate federal law. The Supreme Court rejected that, believing it would constitute “a radical shift of authority from states to the federal government to define general standards of medical practice in every locality.”

Second, the Supreme Court has recognised a right to medical self-determination, notably finding it within the Fifth Amendment’s due-process clause. An individual mandate could violate that right by restricting choices of doctors or procedures.

The last and strongest argument concerns the government’s power to require the purchase of health insurance under the commerce clause. The non-partisan Congressional Research Service found this the most challenging constitutional question related to health-care reform, as the commerce clause, the clause in the constitution that allows the federal government to regulate trade between the states, has never before been used to require that citizens buy a good or service. "
http://www.economist.com/world/united-states/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15721539

As a plea to Dems on here, abandon this bullshit as even if you pass it, it will go down and you end with nothing but looking like Constitution violators.


People should be free to NOT be forced to buy healthcare insurance, it is good to have but it is wrong to force anyone to buy something in the name of protecting them from themselves. And we cannot afford even the existing healthcare we have right now anyway.
THIS. The revolt that will come if this is passed will be at the ballot box and the dems will hurt themselves for a generation or more.
 
THIS. The revolt that will come if this is passed will be at the ballot box and the dems will hurt themselves for a generation or more.

This bill will be one of the proudest achievements in American history.

By staking his presidency on this when he had no obligation to, Obama has definitely secured his place in the top 10 of American presidents (barring some disaster).
 
Isn't social security unemployment insurance essentially just mandating that people buy insurance? How is this different, besides the fact that it basically contracts the job of sorting it out to private industry?

Even after this passes, we will still literally have the most conservative healthcare system in the developed world.
 
We need a bigger whabulance for these pussies. Republitards have used the same procedure. Amazingly lying a out Iraq is Ok.
 
All the Cons, the "strict constructionists", are salavating at the idea of turning to the courts to get a bill that has majority support in both houses of congress overturned.

Ugh, does anyone else see the irony?
 
All the Cons, the "strict constructionists", are salavating at the idea of turning to the courts to get a bill that has majority support in both houses of congress overturned.

Ugh, does anyone else see the irony?

If it had majority support it would been voted on and passed 9-10 months ago....and even now they are threatening to "deem" it passed rather than vote on it....
does jarod have a clue ?....obviously not.
 
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Isn't social security unemployment insurance essentially just mandating that people buy insurance? How is this different, besides the fact that it basically contracts the job of sorting it out to private industry?

Even after this passes, we will still literally have the most conservative healthcare system in the developed world.

corporations + government = fascism.
 
Mandating that people buy insurance is in no way, shape, or form an unprecedented action...

Mandating that anyone buy a good or service at the federal level IS unprecedented. Which means that the Supreme Court will have to decide and they should do the right thing and stop this terrible act of socialism and restriction on freedom.
 
This bill will be one of the proudest achievements in American history.

By staking his presidency on this when he had no obligation to, Obama has definitely secured his place in the top 10 of American presidents (barring some disaster).
Disgusting, this is not a welfare state, you cannot force charity and people are responsible for themselves.
Will the next president be a great hero to you if he unveils universal clothing care or you will side with the "bad guys" and say that it's not too much to ask others to be responsible for their own clothes and depend on charity when they can't?

Some day you are going to be 60 Water and you will look back on this with great regret. Remember wars come and go, so do a lot of boneheaded government actions, but social welfare is addictive and makes people dependent and cannot be eliminated once put in place. You really feel that comfortable with irreversible change?
 
Disgusting, this is not a welfare state, you cannot force charity and people are responsible for themselves.
Will the next president be a great hero to you if he unveils universal clothing care or you will side with the "bad guys" and say that it's not too much to ask others to be responsible for their own clothes and depend on charity when they can't?

Clothing is inexpensive enough to be easily provided without interruption by charity. This is mainly because it's so reusable.

No charity could get enough donations to cover all of the uninsured - or at least none has. That's the problem with charity, that Tom Paine pointed out:

There are, in every country, some magnificent charities established by individuals. It is, however, but little that any individual can do, when the whole extent of the misery to be relieved is considered. He may satisfy his conscience, but not his heart. He may give all that he has, and that all will relieve but little. It is only by organizing civilization upon such principles as to act like a system of pulleys, that the whole weight of misery can be removed.

Some day you are going to be 60 Water and you will look back on this with great regret. Remember wars come and go, so do a lot of boneheaded government actions, but social welfare is addictive and makes people dependent and cannot be eliminated once put in place. You really feel that comfortable with irreversible change?

Yes, I do. I am absolutely certain in my conviction that this will be one belief I will be proud to have held.
 
If it had majority support it would been voted on and passed 9-10 months ago....and even now they are threatening to "deem" it passed rather than vote on it....
does jarod have a clue ?....obviously not.

If a majority vote for it to be passed... should it not pass?
 
If a majority vote for it to be passed... should it not pass?

Let me ask you this.... when the far-right ends up in power through the political vacuum this will cause, and the far-right-controlled Congress decides that homosexuals with AIDS, women seeking abortions, illegal aliens, drug addicts, and people with pre-existing illness in general, are NOT entitled to government-funded health care coverage, and there are no other options made available to these people... are you going to be okay with that? IF they manage to get this change made by bribing public officials and calling it "political sausage" and have to rely on procedural "deem and pass" rules to get it through... you gonna be content with that? I just want that on record NOW, so that when it happens, you won't be here bitching day and night about the Constitution being ignored. In fact, when Republicans take back control of Congress, pretty much anything they want to pass into law, is going to be passed, regardless of how solid the Democrat opposition is... no more of this "minority has a voice" shit... no more lectures on how our founders designed the system to give the minority a say and we are a representative republic and not a democracy... I don't want to hear those words ever come out of your mouth again after this! You have endorsed and sanctioned mob rule, and now you will live by it, by God!
 
And, btw, I think pretty much any welfare program is reversible besides SS. Medicare would be so difficult you may as well not try, though.

We're not going to have to worry about Medicare or Medicaid, this bill effectively destroys any chance of either remaining solvent in the long term. Eventually, the money will run completely out and politicians will be faced with having to raise taxes astronomically or abandon the failed programs. I give you two guesses which one is more likely to happen.
 
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