Court strikes down mandate for birth control in ObamaCare
- Thread starter BRUTALITOPS
- Start date
you were suggesting that I favored one religion over the other. I don't. I don't support anyone being forced to buy something they don't want. I don't know why that's hard to understand. I have been pretty clear on that talking point since forever.
You have not been clear. Again you said....
i do think there is a valid argument to be made that clearly some religious people would have a problem with supporting something like birth control. it should be their right to decline. we'll see what the scotus says though
Your point was clearly that there should be exemptions made for the religious, not that we should not be forced to buy things we don't want. The Roberts decision already passed on that position and so you could have no expectation that the court would agree now.
This is actually a dangerous position for the faithful. If non ecclesiastical business practices of the church and the faithful are actually fundamental to the practice of their faith then action by the government to their benefit then violates the first.
the ARTICLE was about a specific issue regarding how something effects religious people, thus I commented on that. That does not imply I was arguing for a religious only exemption. That is a fucking stupid conclusion to draw. I have been very clear that I dont' support the mandate (probably my biggest objection to obamacare) specifically because I don't believe that people should be forced to purchase something they do not want.
Do you disagree with the idea that people shouldn't be made to purchase things that may violate their beliefs? Whether they be religious/political or personal?
Do you disagree with the idea that people shouldn't be made to purchase things that may violate their beliefs? Whether they be religious/political or personal?
Some people who are not religious may have some problem paying for things they believe are wrong as well. They too should be able to tell whomever uses force to go against their beliefs to stick it up into whatever orifice their sense of self-importance comes from...
It isn't the name of the religion that matters, it is the freedom to exercise it that does.
Again, that could not have been your point. The court already passed on the correct ruling that the Federal government has no authority to force us to buy things we do not want. You were arguing for a religious only exemption, but whatever.
There should not be any exemptions given for non ecclesiastical jobs for this or any other law.
There should be no need for them as the government should not be allowed to force people to violate their religions. It is a very obvious violation of the 1st and their Free Exercise of their belief system.
How does the church have the right to impose their beliefs on non Catholics that work for them? What happened to free will? The church may lay down general guidelines, but the faithful must have the right to choose freely!
They don't, but they do have a right to say you need to get that on your own. Their employees do not have the ability or right to force them to violate the free exercise of their religion either. The only force the employee can place on them is the force of government (and believe me the IRS is force), and that source does not have the right to enforce a different belief system onto them. They have a 1st Amendment.
My employer should not be forced to buy something for me which is against their belief system, even if I want it. And I don't care if it is a religion itself or a private employer who is a believer of some religion or philosophy that has the objection.
i would sue the employer! They aren't buying the birth control or being forced to buy it, they are just supplying the insurance. It is bogus to me, especially when the majority of Catholics defy this.
So, now Jehovah's Witness don't have to supply insurance for blood transfusions? Where does this foolishness end?
Taft2016
Verified User
Catholics are one thing...
But what about Christian Scientists? Shouldn't they be the straw to break the Obamacare Camel's back?
They don't use health care, they don't need health care insurance.
They should be exempt from the individual mandate... and if they are, how does the law then meet the equal protection burdens?
But what about Christian Scientists? Shouldn't they be the straw to break the Obamacare Camel's back?
They don't use health care, they don't need health care insurance.
They should be exempt from the individual mandate... and if they are, how does the law then meet the equal protection burdens?
So, they shouldn't have to be able to employ gay or divorced people, or people who have sex out if wedlock?
Taft2016
Verified User
Right, you would work to employ government force to require them to violate their religious belief system. I grok this is a great wrongness.
First, there is a difference between employing somebody and a violation of their religion. It isn't against their religion to give a person a job, even if they are a sinner. Hiring a gay person isn't against their religion, it isn't immoral to do such a thing, giving them an abortive agent or providing birth control for another is an action that is a sin according to their religion, it is immoral and the Free Exercise of their religion guaranteed in the 1st requires government to allow them to make that decision.
If they want birth control they need to get it from a different source than the church. It isn't even unreasonable, it is affordable, and they chose to work for an employer they knew would not provide such things.
The great wrongness is making non Catholics comply to a religious belief that even most Catholics don't support.
They don't require them to comply. They, the employee, have the capability of obtaining these things without the government enforcing on the church a violation of their 1st Amendment rights. The church won't fire them for it, but they also won't provide it. IMO, that is the only right thing. In a nation that guarantees them the right to freely exercise their religion there never should be an enforced exception to the right. The 1st Amendment doesn't say that they have a right to Free Exercise "except" when the ACA is violating it.
That "most catholics" don't care about this doesn't change that it is a sin according to the religion. "Most catholics" would therefore need to find another source for their birth control. They understand the church isn't going to provide it.
Taft2016
Verified User
No one is making non-Catholics do anything.
However, the government is making the Catholic Church do something against their own doctrines.
it absolutely was my point you fucking retard. I am the worlds foremost expert on my own opinion. The feds ARE forcing us to purchase something we don't want. Either pay for healthcare or they take it out of our taxes. It's the same fucking thing.
and of course you as a fake libertarian would want to force people to be made to give money to something that is against their personal beliefs for the state.
show me where I said this or implied this, anywhere. Show me where I said that this should only apply to religious people and nobody else.