Death Penalty for Penn State?

Darla said:
What is the NCAA death penalty?
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The NCAA bans that school from competing in a given sport for a set period of years. Its usually just one or two yeras. But it costs the school millions of dollars and the current athletes leave, forcing a complete rebuilding of the program.
 
WinterBorn said:
The NCAA bans that school from competing in a given sport for a set period of years. Its usually just one or two yeras. But it costs the school millions of dollars and the current athletes leave, forcing a complete rebuilding of the program.
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Ohhh I see. I mean, something has to be done and it has to be real. But I would feel bad for the athletes? They didn't do anything wrong. I don't know what the answer is.
 
Darla said:
Ohhh I see. I mean, something has to be done and it has to be real. But I would feel bad for the athletes? They didn't do anything wrong. I don't know what the answer is.
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In other cases, the recruits and athletes were allowed to transfer with no loss of eligibility, so they didn't suffer.
 
Darla said:
Ohhh I see. I mean, something has to be done and it has to be real. But I would feel bad for the athletes? They didn't do anything wrong. I don't know what the answer is.
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The solution is to hold Sandusky and the people responsible for the cover up accountable. There are four individuals responsible for the cover up. Coach Paterno, University President Spanier, Senior Vice President Schults and AD Tim Curley should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and if a jury finds that there was a criminal cover up on their behalf they should rott in a cell with Sandusky. In addition the entire Penn State Board of Trustees should be dismissed for their lack of over site. I see no reason for the NCAA death penalty. This wasn't a violation by the program of NCAA rules. It was criminal behavior and should be left to the courts and the rule of law. This is not place for the NCAA.

The Paterno family is claiming that there was no cover up, that Sandusky was a great deciever and that these people including Coach Paterno did not understand the scope of his criminal behavior. After having read the report of the investigation I think it's fair to say that's bunk.
 
I see no reason for the NCAA death penalty. This wasn't a violation by the program of NCAA rules.
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It's called "lack of institutional control" and it most certainly IS a violation of NCAA rules. This wasn't directly related to competition, but then, it kinda was when you think about it. The 'cover up' was totally about protecting the program and school, with total disregard for the law. I think it's a legitimate consideration, but I would be surprised if the NCAA goes that far. Although, given the nature of this particular situation, and realizing they simply must take some serious action here, or the public outcry will be enormous, anything is possible.
 
Dixie said:
It's called "lack of institutional control" and it most certainly IS a violation of NCAA rules. This wasn't directly related to competition, but then, it kinda was when you think about it. The 'cover up' was totally about protecting the program and school, with total disregard for the law. I think it's a legitimate consideration, but I would be surprised if the NCAA goes that far. Although, given the nature of this particular situation, and realizing they simply must take some serious action here, or the public outcry will be enormous, anything is possible.
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I think that's a point that will be rendered moot by the civil suits which will assuradly follow. An NCAA death penalty is going to be the least of Penn States problems.
 
Derp Derp said:
I think that's a point that will be rendered moot by the civil suits which will assuradly follow. An NCAA death penalty is going to be the least of Penn States problems.
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It's not really Penn State's problem as much as it's the NCAA's problem, the way I see it. Penn State will suffer, as you say, the civil suits, as well as the stigma of this, and of course the tarnishing of Paterno... but the NCAA is in a predicament here, they can't just brush this off as none of their business and not their concern. If they act, but their action is perceived as a 'slap on the wrist' then the public will scream in outrage over it, and if they go so far as the death penalty, others will scream and cry over that being too harsh... but what exactly IS "too harsh" when it comes to something like this?
 
Derp Derp said:
The solution is to hold Sandusky and the people responsible for the cover up accountable. There are four individuals responsible for the cover up. Coach Paterno, University President Spanier, Senior Vice President Schults and AD Tim Curley should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and if a jury finds that there was a criminal cover up on their behalf they should rott in a cell with Sandusky. In addition the entire Penn State Board of Trustees should be dismissed for their lack of over site. I see no reason for the NCAA death penalty. This wasn't a violation by the program of NCAA rules. It was criminal behavior and should be left to the courts and the rule of law. This is not place for the NCAA.

The Paterno family is claiming that there was no cover up, that Sandusky was a great deciever and that these people including Coach Paterno did not understand the scope of his criminal behavior. After having read the report of the investigation I think it's fair to say that's bunk.
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That business that Paterno "didn't understand the scope" of Sandusky's criminal behaviour. Huh? Even if it was once, that was one time too many. The four individuals put the school's image ahead of the victims, period. And Sandusky's defense BS about him having a personality disorder.. pedophilia and mental disorders aren't mutually exclusive.
 
christiefan915 said:
That business that Paterno "didn't understand the scope" of Sandusky's criminal behaviour. Huh? Even if it was once, that was one time too many. The four individuals put the school's image ahead of the victims, period. And Sandusky's defense BS about him having a personality disorder.. pedophilia and mental disorders aren't mutually exclusive.
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I agree with you about this, but I think Joe Paterno was caught up in this and simply didn't do the right thing when he should have. Here is a man who loved that school, loved the football program and everything it stood for, it was his entire life. Had he realized what was going to ultimately happen, I am sure he would have taken a different course of action, but I think he was just blinded by his love of the school and program so much, that he made decisions based on that, instead of doing what he knew he should have done. The SECOND that he HEARD of this, he should have called that man into his office and fired him! I don't care that they were lifelong friends, or anything else... He should have told him, "Sorry, Jerry, I can't have this, not even the allegations, doesn't matter if they are true or not." But here was Joe Paterno, old and feeble, tired and weary, faced with an implication of someone he knew for years, and he simply did the wrong thing. He took the 'easy' way out. So many times in life, people do this... I've done it, we've probably ALL done it... (not turn our backs on pedophilia) but take the 'easy' way out, and not do what we should do. I feel sorry for Paterno, here is a man who earned my respect over the years as someone with character and integrity, and that is all gone forever now. I have no respect for him, and I think he did a terrible thing in letting this slide in order to 'protect' the reputation of the school and the program... I get WHY he did it, but it doesn't excuse it.
 
Dixie said:
I agree with you about this, but I think Joe Paterno was caught up in this and simply didn't do the right thing when he should have. Here is a man who loved that school, loved the football program and everything it stood for, it was his entire life. Had he realized what was going to ultimately happen, I am sure he would have taken a different course of action, but I think he was just blinded by his love of the school and program so much, that he made decisions based on that, instead of doing what he knew he should have done. The SECOND that he HEARD of this, he should have called that man into his office and fired him! I don't care that they were lifelong friends, or anything else... He should have told him, "Sorry, Jerry, I can't have this, not even the allegations, doesn't matter if they are true or not." But here was Joe Paterno, old and feeble, tired and weary, faced with an implication of someone he knew for years, and he simply did the wrong thing. He took the 'easy' way out. So many times in life, people do this... I've done it, we've probably ALL done it... (not turn our backs on pedophilia) but take the 'easy' way out, and not do what we should do. I feel sorry for Paterno, here is a man who earned my respect over the years as someone with character and integrity, and that is all gone forever now. I have no respect for him, and I think he did a terrible thing in letting this slide in order to 'protect' the reputation of the school and the program... I get WHY he did it, but it doesn't excuse it.
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That is simply whitewashing a crime. I admired JoPa all those years too.

But he ignored the fact that a pedophile was abusing young boys. By his inaction he allowed more young boys to be abused. He could not have thought it would stop.

No, Paterno is as liable as anyone else is. Yeah, we have all taken the easy way out at some point in ur lives. But none of us, I hope, have ignored a pedophile and allowed him to continue with his despicable activities.

This all came out the first time in 1998, and again in 2001. Penn State went 9-7 in both 1997 and 998. They went 5-7 in 2000 and 5-6 in 2001. People were calling for Paterno to retire. He was covering his own ass and protecting a sports program at the expense of young boys being molested.

As far as I am concerned, all 4 men in positions of authority are responsible for every boy Sandusky molested after 1998. They could have stopped it and didn't.



I am as hardcore a Crimson Tide fan as you will ever find. As a kid I wouldn't let the blue and orange crayons sit next to each other. I bleed crimson. I cried when Bear died. But there is no way I could have ignored what Sandusky did, if it happened at UA.

If this had happened at my beloved UofA, I would be calling for the death penalty too. Probably with more vigor.
 
WinterBorn said:
That is simply whitewashing a crime. I admired JoPa all those years too.

But he ignored the fact that a pedophile was abusing young boys. By his inaction he allowed more young boys to be abused. He could not have thought it would stop.

No, Paterno is as liable as anyone else is. Yeah, we have all taken the easy way out at some point in ur lives. But none of us, I hope, have ignored a pedophile and allowed him to continue with his despicable activities.

This all came out the first time in 1998, and again in 2001. Penn State went 9-7 in both 1997 and 998. They went 5-7 in 2000 and 5-6 in 2001. People were calling for Paterno to retire. He was covering his own ass and protecting a sports program at the expense of young boys being molested.

As far as I am concerned, all 4 men in positions of authority are responsible for every boy Sandusky molested after 1998. They could have stopped it and didn't.

I am as hardcore a Crimson Tide fan as you will ever find. As a kid I wouldn't let the blue and orange crayons sit next to each other. I bleed crimson. I cried when Bear died. But there is no way I could have ignored what Sandusky did, if it happened at UA.

If this had happened at my beloved UofA, I would be calling for the death penalty too. Probably with more vigor.
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I don't know where you got "whitewashing a crime" from what I posted.

But he ignored the fact that a pedophile was abusing young boys.

NO HE DIDN'T.... He ignored the ALLEGATION that this was happening. Joe Paterno did not walk into that shower and SEE Sandusky raping a boy!

As for the rest of your post, I think you need to re-read what I posted, because we are in total agreement. The fact that I explained why I thought Paterno acted as he did, doesn't mean I am justifying what he did or excusing his behavior. I said, quite specifically, that he did the WRONG THING... which one of those words are you having trouble with here, WB?
 
Dixie said:
I don't know where you got "whitewashing a crime" from what I posted.

But he ignored the fact that a pedophile was abusing young boys.

NO HE DIDN'T.... He ignored the ALLEGATION that this was happening. Joe Paterno did not walk into that shower and SEE Sandusky raping a boy!

As for the rest of your post, I think you need to re-read what I posted, because we are in total agreement. The fact that I explained why I thought Paterno acted as he did, doesn't mean I am justifying what he did or excusing his behavior. I said, quite specifically, that he did the WRONG THING... which one of those words are you having trouble with here, WB?
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One of his assistant coaches told him that he saw Sandusky molesting a kid in the shower. That was in 1998. And then for 13 years Sandusky continued to work with young boys. Paterno knew that. Not reporting what he knew, and helping cover it up is criminal.

And my comment of "whitewashing" related to the "We have all taken the easy way out" remarks. What Paterno did was not taking the easy way out. what he did was cover for a pedophile.

Allegations? He was told by an eye witness what happened. At the VERY least, he should have investigated it or passed it onto someone else to investigate. But he didn't. He turned his back on every one of those boys in order to protect a football program.
 
YOUR WORDS: As far as I am concerned, all 4 men in positions of authority are responsible for every boy Sandusky molested after 1998. They could have stopped it and didn't.
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MY WORDS: The SECOND that he HEARD of this, he should have called that man into his office and fired him!

Do you somehow READ what I wrote to say something completely different than what you're saying?

The ONLY thing I disagree with, is that Joe Paterno KNEW the allegations were true. I don't think he believed they were, for whatever reason... perhaps he convinced himself of this? I agree, he SHOULD have known! But beyond that, just the ALLEGATION should have been enough to fire Sandusky. It doesn't matter if it was true, and that's what he SHOULD have done.
 
WinterBorn said:
One of his assistant coaches told him that he saw Sandusky molesting a kid in the shower. That was in 1998. And then for 13 years Sandusky continued to work with young boys. Paterno knew that. Not reporting what he knew, and helping cover it up is criminal.
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Paterno knew what? That someone accused one of his coaches of something? Because, unless Paterno witnessed Sandusky raping a boy, he didn't KNOW any damn thing for CERTAIN. Now, maybe you can argue that he SHOULD have known, or that he SHOULD have followed up on it more rigorously, or even... that it didn't matter IF it were true, that just the ALLEGATION should have been sufficient... those are all legitimate, but to argue that because someone TELLS you something, you automatically KNOW it to be TRUE, that's jumping the gun on logic.
 
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