christiefan915
Catalyst
How did they do it before CU?
APP - Defend Citizens United
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How did they do it before CU?
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? do what?
christiefan915
Catalyst
Get sued or seek redress.
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CU didn't give them that right. they have that right since the beginning. there are cases dating back to the early 1800's confirming that right.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
You see what unnecessary bullshit you're running into here? Do you see how they have successfully derailed the thread topic with this? It all started when you posted the following: "people misunderstand the concept of corporate personhood. it does not grant corps the same rights as you and i. it merely grants them certain rights and recognizes a certain "personhood" so they can create contracts, be sued and seek redress. without those rights, corporations would be meaningless."
You accepted their meme about "corporate personhood" and attempted to explain yourself. There was no need, you should have simply rejected the notion as silly and superfluous, because it IS. The Supreme Court finds you and they are WRONG! Corporations most certainly DON'T have a completely different set of rights, just for corporations, so they can be sued and enter into contracts! They have the SAME rights as we ALL have, because a corporation is comprised of individuals. That's what CU was all about, and you are now arguing the case the liberals made and failed with.
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i have some choice words for you dixie, however, this is the APP. i respectfully refer you to post 131.
further, i never said corps have a "completely different set of rights". it is like you're reading some other script, something from outer space. read post 131 and then get back to me.
further, i never said corps have a "completely different set of rights". it is like you're reading some other script, something from outer space. read post 131 and then get back to me.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
IF you have read post #140, you know that I have read post #131, and what my problem was with what you said. I've already addressed it. Here is what you said, that I have a problem with: (From #131)
Corporations help structure and facilitate the activities of human beings, to be sure, and their "personhood" often serves as a useful legal fiction. But they are not themselves members of "We the People" by whom and for whom our Constitution was established.
According to the SCOTUS ruling in Citizens, this is WRONG! In fact, THIS was the argument used by the defense! That corporations themselves, are NOT members of "We the People" and do not possess the same rights as such. The court found Corporations ARE comprised of people, and as such, can not be denied inalienable rights without denying the people who comprise the corporation those rights.
"Corporations" must have every right an individual has, because it is made up of individuals. You can not deny them rights based on their affiliation as a "corporation" any more than you could if they were any other group designation.
Stop picking on corporations they have feelings too. Why ATT and Verizon cry every time they have to hire an American worker over an Indian worker, the fair pay makes them cry. And Monsanto and other chemical corporations cry every time they get caught polluting the earth. Corporations have deep feelings and love the supreme court so much they cry that another reasonable judge could be selected by Obama. Nike cries every time a sweat shop is discovered. Please be fair to their feelings, like Boehner tears well up over the simplest things. Be nice.
"Mitch McConnell takes the corporations-are-people ethos to a new level. Now corporations can do more than speak—they can feel."
http://www.guernicamag.com/blog/robert-reich-corporate-feelings/
"Mitch McConnell takes the corporations-are-people ethos to a new level. Now corporations can do more than speak—they can feel."
http://www.guernicamag.com/blog/robert-reich-corporate-feelings/
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
There is an actual adult conversation going on here, Middie. Try another thread for you monkey tricks.
LOL That would be a first, if inane apologetics for corporations and republican worship of them is adult conversation then it is time to be child like.
"Five members of the Supreme Court think corporations are people. Mitt Romney agrees. And now the minority leader of the Senate–the highest-ranking Republican official in America–takes this logic to its absurd conclusion: If corporations are people, they must be capable of feeling harassed and intimidated if their shareholders or consumers don’t approve of their political expenditures.
Hell, they might even throw a tantrum. Or cry." from link above.
'REPORT: 25 Corporations Paid More To Their CEO Last Year Than They Paid In Taxes' http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/08/31/308487/25-corporations-paid-more-to-ceo-taxes/
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
And of course, yet another plug for a liberal website! Do they pay per link you post, or clicks you generate?
The MAJORITY of a liberal-slanted SCOTUS, made an appropriate ruling on first amendment rights. You are mad because it destroys your meme that corporations are evil entities operating of their own volition to the detriment of man. Just as you were beginning to lull people into believing this horrid fairy-tale, the SCOTUS sets you on your ear, and completely erases all your brainwash efforts. Poor Commie... whatever will you do now? ...Mock the decision, of course!
Lao Tse
Verified User
Dixie, your fascism is showing.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
No... Fascism would be if we elected a president who issued an executive order to mandate rights, against the will of the people and without consideration for any court ruling.... You know, like Obama is doing things? Relying on the SCOTUS to rule on cases of constitutionality, is about the farthest thing from Fascism as you could have. Respecting their opinion, is respecting the very nature of how our system works here, and it's NOT a Fascist system at all. On the other hand, mandating and dictating how things are going to be from 'on-high' is completely Fascist in nature. That would more appropriately describe you and not I.
Wrong, facist has a specific definition, it doesn't mean pinhead or one of your other generic insults.
Lao Tse
Verified User
No fascism is the unification of corporate and government policy, like the citizens united decision.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
So in essence, what you are saying is... From 1776 to 2002, we were a Fascist nation?
Because, the Citizens case was a challenge to a 2002 law known as CFR. Prior to this law in 2002, what Citizens did was not prohibited.
I think we can dismiss your argument on the grounds of general absurdity.
Lao Tse
Verified User
No. Im saying when government completely aligns with business interests, it's fascism.
"The 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy." Alex Carey [see http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/827 ]
Dixie, you are old enough to know times change, power changes, everything changes and sometimes not for the best.
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist... We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together." Dwight D. Eisenhower
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?36906-Free-the-Corporations
When they send corporations to jail for criminal behavior I'll reconsider the dumb idea that a group can become a single thing. Groups are great things, in groups there is often no single person at fault.
"Corporate propaganda directed outwards, that is, to the public at large, has two main objectives: to identify the free enterprise system in popular consciousness with every cherished value, and to identify interventionist governments and strong unions (the only agencies capable of checking a complete domination of society by corporations) with tyranny, oppression and even subversion. The techniques used to achieve these results are variously called 'public relations', 'corporate communications' and 'economic education'." Alex Carey 'Taking the Risk out of Democracy'
Dixie, you are old enough to know times change, power changes, everything changes and sometimes not for the best.
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist... We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together." Dwight D. Eisenhower
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?36906-Free-the-Corporations
When they send corporations to jail for criminal behavior I'll reconsider the dumb idea that a group can become a single thing. Groups are great things, in groups there is often no single person at fault.
"Corporate propaganda directed outwards, that is, to the public at large, has two main objectives: to identify the free enterprise system in popular consciousness with every cherished value, and to identify interventionist governments and strong unions (the only agencies capable of checking a complete domination of society by corporations) with tyranny, oppression and even subversion. The techniques used to achieve these results are variously called 'public relations', 'corporate communications' and 'economic education'." Alex Carey 'Taking the Risk out of Democracy'
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
But that's not what happened with Citizens. They challenged a 2002 law, and the court struck down that law in their favor. It was regarding their free speech rights and rights to assembly, under the 1st amendment. It had nothing to do with government completely (or partially) aligning with business interests. Now... GM bailouts, on the other hand?... but I digress!
You said: Fascism is the unification of corporate and government policy, like the citizens united decision.
If this is true, then we have not only been a "Fascist nation" since the 2010 ruling, we were a "Fascist nation" from 1776 to 2002, because that was when the challenged law was established. And the only time we haven't been a "Fascist nation" has been 2002-2010, under McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform.
Lao Tse
Verified User
But the net result is an enhancement of corporate power, hence its fascism.