Defunding Obamacare!

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Dixie - In Memoriam

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Many speculated before the elections, on the prospects of repealing Obamacare when the 2010 Congress takes office. But, that is not a realistic possibility, and everyone knows that. In order to do so, would require a majority of Congress (which isn't happening) and then it would require Obama to have a brain fart and forget he has a Veto Pen! Then it would take 2/3 of Congress to override the veto, and that ain't happening either. So, to think this is possible in 2011, is just plain ignorant of how government works.

BUT... what will happen (I believe) is there will be enough initiative to defund the provisions as they come up for appropriation, thus stalling any implementation until 2012. After another round of elections like we just had, there will be enough support in Congress in 2013, to completely dismantle Obamacare, and start over. That is, if the SCOTUS doesn't rule the mandate to buy insurance unconstitutional, which basically nullifies the whole plan. In any event, America is a long way from seeing Obamacare implemented in all its wondrous glory... hallelujah!
 
Dixie said:
Many speculated before the elections, on the prospects of repealing Obamacare when the 2010 Congress takes office. But, that is not a realistic possibility, and everyone knows that. In order to do so, would require a majority of Congress (which isn't happening) and then it would require Obama to have a brain fart and forget he has a Veto Pen! Then it would take 2/3 of Congress to override the veto, and that ain't happening either. So, to think this is possible in 2011, is just plain ignorant of how government works.

BUT... what will happen (I believe) is there will be enough initiative to defund the provisions as they come up for appropriation, thus stalling any implementation until 2012. After another round of elections like we just had, there will be enough support in Congress in 2013, to completely dismantle Obamacare, and start over. That is, if the SCOTUS doesn't rule the mandate to buy insurance unconstitutional, which basically nullifies the whole plan. In any event, America is a long way from seeing Obamacare implemented in all its wondrous glory... hallelujah!
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sociopath
 
I don't think repealing is the correct approach. It should be dramatically modified (the mandate thrown out, for example) and getting 2/3rds of the House to support this would be a breeze. The Senate would be trickier, but not impossible. Given last night's results, I think many Democrats in the Senate will be willing to revisit this issue.
 
Voltaire said:
I don't think repealing is the correct approach. It should be dramatically modified (the mandate thrown out, for example) and getting 2/3rds of the House to support this would be a breeze. The Senate would be trickier, but not impossible. Given last night's results, I think many Democrats in the Senate will be willing to revisit this issue.
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I don't think most Americans are going to be satisfied with a congressional "re-working" of the bill. In fact, I think you'd piss a lot of people off if you suggested that, at this point. This was a turd when it was passed, and it's still a turd, and all the congressional polishing in the world isn't going to help a turd.

Repeal it. The people want it repealed! Then, we can start all over from square one, and craft something that makes sense and actually fixes some of the problems with the health care system... or not, that would suit me fine too! The Federal Government doesn't have any business dealing with our health care anyway, it's not enumerated in their constitutional powers anywhere. Before all this happened, I was of the opinion that we probably needed to fix some things, but now, I don't give a flying shit if we ever talk about health care again in Congress. It would serve the liberals right to get absolutely NOTHING!
 
I don't think repealing is the correct approach.
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And that's what the hell is wrong with you, John McCain! You're so emotively tied to making sure the fucking liberal socialist LIKE you, that you'll cave on any principle of conservatism at any time, just to score a few brownie points with them, and they will throw you under the bus and spit on you, first chance they get. YOU are what we just threw out of Congress on the Republican side! There is not any room for this 'appeasement' crap anymore, those days are OVER! Grow a set of balls, and stand up to the Socialist Marxists, and stop thinking you sound pragmatic and diplomatic to anyone but yourself!
 
Voltaire said:
I don't think repealing is the correct approach. It should be dramatically modified (the mandate thrown out, for example) and getting 2/3rds of the House to support this would be a breeze. The Senate would be trickier, but not impossible. Given last night's results, I think many Democrats in the Senate will be willing to revisit this issue.
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I think we all want it revisited, but they want to repeal it and do over so President Obama will get not credit for it, it will be the work of the Tea Time Republicans! It is ridiculous the lengths they wish to go to to make sure this man gets credit for anything other than being the first elected black president! There are some in the party that dislike him that much!
 
The problem was, and what makes it so very unpopular, he ran on getting insurance for the 15 Million who didn't have coverage (yeah, that dropped from 30 Million when they took away the illegal immigrants, running on giving free insurance to people who came illegally was a bit much), suddenly it rose back up to 30 Million during debates and then magically became forcing crappier health care onto people who already had coverage.

Seriously, we could have saved money just covering the 15 Million and any plan from the republicans will have to do that if it has any shot at gaining popular support and helping them in '12.
 
Damocles said:
The problem was, and what makes it so very unpopular, he ran on getting insurance for the 15 Million who didn't have coverage (yeah, that dropped from 30 Million when they took away the illegal immigrants, running on giving free insurance to people who came illegally was a bit much), suddenly it rose back up to 30 Million during debates and then magically became forcing crappier health care onto people who already had coverage.

Seriously, we could have saved money just covering the 15 Million and any plan from the republicans will have to do that if it has any shot at gaining popular support and helping them in '12.
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yes, I think you are on to something.
 
Obamacare is going to be defunded, and in 2013, repealed. If "moderate" Republicans want to side up with Democrats and fight, then we will unseat you in 2012 just like we unseated many this election. There is no compromise on this thing being REPEALED! That is going to happen... not "re-worked" ...not "modified" ...REPEALED!
 
It would be like if the Democrats refused to pass a budget until Bush repealed his tax cuts.

Besides, Dixie, anyone who repeals the healthcare bill is guilty of 20,000 murders a year. I will not hesitate to practice self-defense against anyone that makes motions to take the life of my fellow human beings.
 
Watermarx said:
It would be like if the Democrats refused to pass a budget until Bush repealed his tax cuts.

Besides, Dixie, anyone who repeals the healthcare bill is guilty of 20,000 murders a year. I will not hesitate to practice self-defense against anyone that makes motions to take the life of my fellow human beings.
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funny-pictures-kitten-shoe-loled.jpg
 
Voltaire said:
I don't think repealing is the correct approach. It should be dramatically modified (the mandate thrown out, for example) and getting 2/3rds of the House to support this would be a breeze. The Senate would be trickier, but not impossible. Given last night's results, I think many Democrats in the Senate will be willing to revisit this issue.
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You guys are delusional. The source of opposition to Health Care reform is coming predominantly from Seniors who have been propagandized into believing they will lose their medicare benefits. As the benefits kick in, you're going to see growing popularity with the reforms. Two that have all ready kicked in, allowing families to keep adult children on there insurance to age 25 and closing the medicare doughnut hole are have all ready kicked in and are gaining popularity.

Eliminating the mandate for all to carry health insurance is one of the fundamental aspects of reform. You do want to succeed in undermining HC reform, that is indeed the way to do it but such reactionary and emotionaly based actions have their consequences. If you want to see HC in our nation consume 20% and then 25% of GDP and continue to grow with out aging population. If you want to see this drain on our economy in addition to our addiction to foreign oil, then try to prevent all progress and try to keep an 19th century form of government.

Ya'll are pissing up a rope. You forget who and what is driving health care reform. You might as well be trying to stop a glacier as to stop the onslaught of history. Our nation will reform our HC system and a handful of reactionaries being propagandized by vested interest in the HMO system which can only generate profits when it denies people access to health care are not going to stop it. The HMO model is a failed system. It costs far to much, it denies far to many access to health care, worse it prevents people from seeking health care for minor health issues until those issues become substantial issues with large costs. It's a failed systems and it is in the process of being replaced and it's about damned time!
 
Dixie said:
I don't think most Americans are going to be satisfied with a congressional "re-working" of the bill. In fact, I think you'd piss a lot of people off if you suggested that, at this point. This was a turd when it was passed, and it's still a turd, and all the congressional polishing in the world isn't going to help a turd.

Repeal it. The people want it repealed! Then, we can start all over from square one, and craft something that makes sense and actually fixes some of the problems with the health care system... or not, that would suit me fine too! The Federal Government doesn't have any business dealing with our health care anyway, it's not enumerated in their constitutional powers anywhere. Before all this happened, I was of the opinion that we probably needed to fix some things, but now, I don't give a flying shit if we ever talk about health care again in Congress. It would serve the liberals right to get absolutely NOTHING!
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The 'turd' was the SAME 'turd' Republicans proposed in 1993, including the BIG Republican idea; THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE - Chart: Comparing Health Reform Bills: Democrats and Republicans 2009, Republicans 1993

The Thirty Year History Of Republicans Supporting the Individual Mandate

Republican support for the individual mandate policy goes back further than this health care reform discussion. Earlier this month, Julie Rovner profiled a history of the policy dating back to the 1980′s

In fact, says Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea. “It was invented by Mark Pauly to give to George Bush Sr. back in the day, as a competition to the employer mandate focus of the Democrats at the time.”…

“We called this responsible national health insurance,” says Pauly. “There was a kind of an ethical and moral support for the notion that people shouldn’t be allowed to free-ride on the charity of fellow citizens.”

The policy was originally included in many Republican proposals including the proposals during the Clinton administration. The leading GOP alternative plan known as the 1994 Consumer Choice Health Security Act included the requirement to purchase insurance. Further, this proposal was based off of a 1990 Heritage Foundation proposal outlined a quality health system where “government would require, by law every head of household to acquire at least a basic health plan for his or her family.”

The Individual Mandate - A GOP Idea
 
Bfoon, you can pump out your propaganda over and over again, it really doesn't matter at this point. The people spoke very loudly last Tuesday, and it was largely against Obamacare. Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats were warned several times, not to pass this thing without bipartisan support, and the warning was ignored. Now you will pay the political price for that.

I feel certain we will have health care reform, this thing just isn't going to be it. Certain provisions have already been adopted, and will probably be hard to get rid of, but most of it will be repealed if not outright ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. If you want to try and pretend the right is just totally opposed to any health care reforms, that's up to you, but it's a position of ignorance. The GOP offered dozens of ideas for reform, they were all categorically rejected by Obama and Democrats. So, once we've abolished Obamacare, we can put our greatest minds together to formulate reasonable common-sense reforms, which every American can understand and READ for themselves, and which will actually serve to bring down the cost of health care for everyone.
 
When it comes to obamacare, americans are ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and then burn down the whole house in which this bath is taking place.
 
Dixie said:
Bfoon, you can pump out your propaganda over and over again, it really doesn't matter at this point. The people spoke very loudly last Tuesday, and it was largely against Obamacare. Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats were warned several times, not to pass this thing without bipartisan support, and the warning was ignored. Now you will pay the political price for that.

I feel certain we will have health care reform, this thing just isn't going to be it. Certain provisions have already been adopted, and will probably be hard to get rid of, but most of it will be repealed if not outright ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. If you want to try and pretend the right is just totally opposed to any health care reforms, that's up to you, but it's a position of ignorance. The GOP offered dozens of ideas for reform, they were all categorically rejected by Obama and Democrats. So, once we've abolished Obamacare, we can put our greatest minds together to formulate reasonable common-sense reforms, which every American can understand and READ for themselves, and which will actually serve to bring down the cost of health care for everyone.
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As important as the congressional slaughter were the governor races with regards to dismantling the obamacare mess.
 
Ice Dancer said:
As important as the congressional slaughter were the governor races with regards to dismantling the obamacare mess.
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Most of the states the Republicans won were conservative states that had conservative Democratic governors. In MS the AG is a Democrat, but is still in that whole Obamacare suite.
 
Dixie said:
Bfoon, you can pump out your propaganda over and over again, it really doesn't matter at this point. The people spoke very loudly last Tuesday, and it was largely against Obamacare. Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats were warned several times, not to pass this thing without bipartisan support, and the warning was ignored. Now you will pay the political price for that.
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In the judiciary committee it was developed in a bipartisan manner, and progressives were essentially defeated on every issue. The Republicans refused to vote for the bill once they created it, though, instead seeing an opportunity.
 
Watermarx said:
In the judiciary committee it was developed in a bipartisan manner, and progressives were essentially defeated on every issue. The Republicans refused to vote for the bill once they created it, though, instead seeing an opportunity.
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Good grief...are you telling us Republicans created the bill known as Obamacare?:doh:
 
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