Dixie, Step Up

The possibility of an all-powerful being cannot be proven or disproven at this point. Therefore it could also be argued that when man wrote down the various religious texts, the concept of time to God was not understood. Perhaps a being that lives forever sees a day the same way we see 10 billion years.

We could lay supposition upon supposition until the cows come home... Doesn't help us understand any clearer..
 
The six days of creation are restorative, not original. Genesis 1:1-2 says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. AND the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." (Emphasis Added) In-between verse one and two, there are billions of years. During this time I suspect God created numerous worlds and races. In our solar system, Lucifer and his Angels ruled the roost. Lucifer was God's most beautiful creation but he became arrogant in his splendor. When God poured out judgment, the terrestrial planets (including Earth) were destroyed. (God permitted some of the inhabitants to escape to the moons of Nibiru; most, however, were killed and became angry spirits). The Earth remained in this state for an unspecified amount of time.

At some point, "God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

How do I know this?

Isaiah 45:18 says, For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

The phrase 'in vain' is translated from the Hebrew 'tohu'. In Genesis 1:2, it says "the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

The phrase 'without form' is also translated from the Hebrew 'tohu'. When Isaiah 45:18 is read in context with Genesis 1:2, it becomes clear that there is a "gap" between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. Why? Think: Isaiah says God did not create the world in vain. Yet, Genesis 1:2 says the Earth was in vain. Therefore the Creation (Genesis 1:1) must have taken place at an earlier, unspecified point in time -- possibly billions of years prior to Genesis 1:2.

During the Tribulation, fallen entities from Nibiru will rule the Earth alongside the Antichrist, Petrus Romanus. One of the moons of Nibiru, called Wormwood, will strike the Earth. Leaked documents from within the Vatican have demonstrated their knowledge of this event.
 
During the Tribulation, fallen entities from Nibiru will rule the Earth alongside the Antichrist, Petrus Romanus. One of the moons of Nibiru, called Wormwood, will strike the Earth. Leaked documents from within the Vatican have demonstrated their knowledge of this event.

lol! "And the bezan shall be huge and black, and the eyes thereof red with the blood of living creatures, and the whore of Babylon shall ride forth on a three-headed serpent, and throughout the lands, there'll be a great rubbing of parts. Yeeah...

For the demon shall bear a nine-bladed sword. Nine-bladed! Not two or five or seven, but nine, which he will wield on all wretched sinners, sinners just like you, sir, there, and the horns shall be on the head, with which he will...

Obadiah, his servants. There shall, in that time, be rumours of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things wi-- with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock. Yea, it is written in the book of Cyril that, in that time, shall the third one... "

- Book of the Life of Brian
 
Brent why the commandment "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me" if no other gods exist ?

Then there is tha issue of a jealous god, well I suppose jealousy is next to godliness ?
 
AnyOldIron said:
During the Tribulation, fallen entities from Nibiru will rule the Earth alongside the Antichrist, Petrus Romanus. One of the moons of Nibiru, called Wormwood, will strike the Earth. Leaked documents from within the Vatican have demonstrated their knowledge of this event.

lol! "And the bezan shall be huge and black, and the eyes thereof red with the blood of living creatures, and the whore of Babylon shall ride forth on a three-headed serpent, and throughout the lands, there'll be a great rubbing of parts. Yeeah...

For the demon shall bear a nine-bladed sword. Nine-bladed! Not two or five or seven, but nine, which he will wield on all wretched sinners, sinners just like you, sir, there, and the horns shall be on the head, with which he will...

Obadiah, his servants. There shall, in that time, be rumours of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things wi-- with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock. Yea, it is written in the book of Cyril that, in that time, shall the third one... "

- Book of the Life of Brian
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Man, I love that movie.
 
uscitizen said:
Brent why the commandment "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me" if no other gods exist ?

Then there is tha issue of a jealous god, well I suppose jealousy is next to godliness ?
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Isaiah 44:8 says, Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Men will always invent their own gods, because they don't like the Lord God's rules.
 
This is all nonsense...

1) I never claimed that science proves anything. In fact, I have, AGAIN AND AGAIN, stated that science does not deal in "proof", it deals in empirical evidence to support the predictions deductively derived from a hypothesis. Said hypothesis needs explain the initial, observed phenomenon, while being able to predict other phenomena which are logically derived from it.

2) I challenged Dixie to support ID as a scientific theory...that does NOT imply that I insist that science is the ONLY way to draw conclusions. I asked Dixie, and those like him (Read: Brent, the lying little shit) to support ID as a scientific theory BECAUSE THEY TRY TO PRESENT IT AS SUCH.

They play at Straw Man, insisting that I insist that science is the ONLY way to go, simply so they can avoid actually supporting their OBVIOUSLY FALLACIOUS CLAIMS.

3) As per usual, Dixie and his like do everything OTHER than deal with the actual challenge.


The simple FACT is that "Intelligent Design Theory" does NOT meet the requirements to be called a theory, in the scientific sense of the word. People like Dixie and Brent KNOW this, but have no qualms using every dishonest tactic their petty little minds can assemble at the moment.


...And then they have the fucking nerve to soil ACTUAL Christians by claiming that they are "persecuted" because they are "Christians". They aren't Christians. They are lazy, thoughtless, self-centered little shits who want to be accorded respect they never put the slightest effort into earning, thinking they should be accorded as such simply because they CLAIM to belong to a particular social group.

Fucking ridiculous.
 
Intelligent design does not proclaim that there must be a God. It simply states that some elements of the universe are oddly complete, and unlikely to be a result of randomness, but of a specific purpose. The only way to test this is to define what is likely to be random and what can be logically attributed to intelligence and apply this to the universe to determine the likelihood of either hypothesis. This would be difficult because you would have to define intelligence concretely, and intelligence is an ambigious term.
 
Randomness is just order on levels that we cannot yet comprehend.

Time wise we have barely progressed past the certain knowledge of evil spirits and sins against gods causing diseases. The earth being the center of the universe, etc...
 
I have no problem waiting for Dixie to get established at his new place. He wasn't willing to debate before he moved, and he'll punk out again after he's moved.

Brent has no testicular fortitude either.
 
Dammit, I can't defend intelligent design rationally. Only emotionally. The most I can do is stir up a slight amount of doubt on the subject, which wouldn't defeat any rational debator.
 
The only things ID proponents have going for them are:

a) Trickery

b) Hordes of fundies willing to espouse anything as true, regardless of how ridiculous, as long as it supports their beliefs.


The main trickery tactic is EQUIVOCATION...

They insist that because they use some of the TOOLS that are sometimes used in science, they are therefore using The Scientific Method.

That is tantamount to saying...

"Because my uncle, the aircraft mechanic, used this wrench on an F-16, and I used said wrench on my Schwinn, I am therefore an aircraft mechanic."
 
One does not have to use science to make a rational argument, nor does one necessarily have to believe in it to say that it is possible.
 
If that was directed at me Damocles, please note that I have explicitly stated, multiple times, that I am not claiming that science is the only way to draw rational conclusions.

The whole point of this thread is to point out that people such as Dixie and Brent say that ID IS A PRODUCT OF SCIENCE, when it OBVIOUSLY is not.
 
Agnosticus_Caesar said:
If that was directed at me Damocles, please note that I have explicitly stated, multiple times, that I am not claiming that science is the only way to draw rational conclusions.

The whole point of this thread is to point out that people such as Dixie and Brent say that ID IS A PRODUCT OF SCIENCE, when it OBVIOUSLY is not.
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No, I was suggesting to WM that he could argue rationally without using the whole "It is science" angle.
 
Jarod said:
Thats what Ive always said, but the fundies say, beause thats not what the bible says. They say God created Adam and Eve and thats that.
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Then they don't understand the word tool. General Motors created those cars, but the tools they use are wrenches. Evolution could be a wrench.

It even could be done in 6 days by an all-powerful being simply speeding up the process so that it would complete faster (for those who believe that whole 6 day thing is 100% true.) Humankind would never be able to tell the difference, science would always be saying that things are 6,000,000,000 years old that were really only 6000 + 2 days or so...
 
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