Dixie the LIAR!

Sarin is bad stuff, but on the dpeleted munitions found, I defer to the military expert that said this was not the WND's they were looking for. So no cigar for those trying to say that Bush's invasion based on the threat of WMD's was justified.

Degraded, not depleted. Let's use the proper terminoligy, please.

It's nice to note that even the military expert recognized Sarin bombs as WMD's, just not the "ones we were looking for." Which really doesn't matter anyway, to be counted as viable by Pinheads, Saddam would have needed to be making them while Hans was still inspecting. That wasn't the issue, it was the existence of WMD's, the technology to produce them, the defiance of world order, and the deception that took place over the course of 20 years. Keep in mind, Iraq signed the CWC treaty back in 1972, so why was Saddam even making Sarin bombs in the mid 80's? C'mon you Saddam apologists, explain that one to us!
 
I dont care if its defined as a weapon, a dangerous weapon, or an extremly dangerous weapon....

The point is that Dixie claimed the document defined it as a Weapon of Mass Destruction... that claim is clearly FALSE!

Sorry, but I don't agree with you. From what I have seen Dixie did nothing wrong here. You called him a liar. He called you on it and handed you the documents to prove you were wrong.

He slapped down your vendetta against him this time.

Immie
 
The point is that Dixie claimed the document defined it as a Weapon of Mass Destruction... that claim is clearly FALSE!

No, I never said this, you interpreted what I said as this, and I corrected you. What I said was; "it (Sarin gas) is classified as a weapon of mass destruction by the United Nations according to UN Resolution 687" And according to UNR 678, Noting moreover the importance of all States adhering to this Convention and encouraging its forthcoming Review Conference to reinforce the authority, efficiency and universal scope of the convention,


In other words, they confer with the CWC, on what constitutes a WMD.
 
Note the title of the document:

Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production and Stockpiling of Bacteriological (Biological) and Toxin Weapons and on Their Destruction

Note particularly the word that I underlined. A weapon is not simply a dangerous chemical. In this case, it is a dangerous chemical developed with the intention of doing harm to human beings. Lots of human beings!

Maineman has stated on fullpolitics.com that these were Weapons of Mass Destruction at one time but because they have degraded are no longer WMDs. Technically one could argue this point; however, it seems to me that this is simply playing with semantics.
Honestly, I think you're the one playing with semantics. The point isn't really whether one can justify calling the degraded materials "WMD" or not. The point is whether those (degraded) munitions posed any sort of credible, immediate threat at the time of the invasion.
I am of the opinion that Saddam at one time had WMD's. It seems that at the time we invaded he had gotten rid of those weapons. How he did so and where they are now is what we should be concerned with. Not just the fact that we have not found them.
Reasonable enough, but the best evidence available strongly suggests that the stockpiles of prohibited weapons were all or almost all destroyed shortly after the first Gulf War. If I recall correctly, the very last important munitions were destroyed by 1998. The documentation for disposal was not entirely ironclad but the U.N. had, at the time of the invasion, a mechanism and process in place to verify the documentation.

The invasion has not increased the likelyhood that we will ever know exactly when and where all of the stockpiles were disposed. Indeed, it has arguably lessened those chances by destroying evidence and killing witnesses.
I am also of the opinion that Saddam was a threat to the United States. How big a threat is something that those who know more about this than I do can debate all they want. But, the left's claim that he was not a threat is simply baffling to me.

The mosquito that was buzzing around my head this morning was a threat to me. Maybe not a serious threat but still a threat. It could have been carrying West Nile Virus for all I know. The Water Mocassin that is lurking somewhere around my neighborhood is a threat. One that worries me somewhat more than that mosquito. Al Qaeda is a threat to my country and to me somewhat. Who knows where they will strike next? Saddam Hussein was also a threat.
The point is not that he was no threat at all. Any nation is a threat, if you reall want to get down to it. Canada is a threat. Mexico is a threat. Jamaica is a threat. It's just not much of one.

Saddam was neither an immediate nor a particularly grave threat to the United States. Many other nations were, at that time, far more credible threats. Notably, North Korea.
The mosquito didn't bite me, at least I don't think it did, but that doesn't mean it was not (emphasis on was) a threat. That Water Mocassin is still a threat as is Al Qaeda. I will probably never feel the direct result of a threat from Al Qaeda or the water mocassin, but that does not mean the threat does not exist. The same goes for Saddam Hussein. He didn't bite, but he could have. That made him a threat.
It is fundamentally insupportable to invade another nation, killing thousands of people, simply because that nation might possibly be a threat. Our policy at that time was allegedly clear. We were never to preemptively invade another nation unless that nation posed a grave and imminent threat to the United States. Without significant stockpiles of WMD and the clear intent to use them, Saddam Hussen could not possible pose such an imminent threat
Was the threat worth the lives of over 3,000 American Soldiers and untold number of innocent Iraq civilians? I really don't know and we will never know for sure, because thankfully, the threat that Saddam posed has been eliminated.

I think what is important at the moment is just how big of a threat are we facing and from what fronts. Do Iraq citizens pose a threat to us? Does North Korea? Do Radical muslims? Are we accomplishing a reduction of the threat by carrying on this war in Iraq? If so, how should we deal with these threats? A risk assessment needs to be evaluated to determine at what costs we should be in Iraq and whether or not we should be focusing our strengths elsewhere.

Immie

By the way, I eliminated the threat of the mosquito... he or she now resides in the mosquito afterlife.
 
Sorry, but I don't agree with you. From what I have seen Dixie did nothing wrong here. You called him a liar. He called you on it and handed you the documents to prove you were wrong.

He slapped down your vendetta against him this time.

Immie


If you can show me where this document says Sairn is a WMD Ill appologise.. otherwise I stand by what I said!
 
The point is that Dixie claimed the document defined it as a Weapon of Mass Destruction... that claim is clearly FALSE!

No, I never said this, you interpreted what I said as this, and I corrected you. What I said was; "it (Sarin gas) is classified as a weapon of mass destruction by the United Nations according to UN Resolution 687" And according to UNR 678, Noting moreover the importance of all States adhering to this Convention and encouraging its forthcoming Review Conference to reinforce the authority, efficiency and universal scope of the convention,


In other words, they confer with the CWC, on what constitutes a WMD.



Okay where does classify Sarin Gas as a WMD?
 
Okay where does classify Sarin Gas as a WMD?

Hey retard? What the fuck do you expect it to say? "We hereby classify Sarin bombs as weapons of mass destruction!" If you are looking for something like that, it isn't there, and that's not what I said. Sarin was deemed a chemical weapon by the CWC, which did indeed indicate what constituted a weapon of mass destruction and distinguished it from other chemicals that weren't. Not only this, but it also defined what substances were considered "precursors" and banned their production as well. The United Nations refrenced the CWC in UNR678, and established it as the criteria used by the UN to determine what a WMD is.... thus, "classifying" Sarin as a WMD.

Oh, by the way, the CWC did not ban bleach.
 
Except that chemical weapons are not generally considered WMD. Not in arms control and diplomacy, anyway.


The Chemical Weapons Convention specifically outlines what chemicals are considered illegal to posses and produce and under what conditions they are determined to be WMD's. They also outline a process by which a signatory can dispose of any stockpiles of WMD's, including degraded ones, which it indicates, were chemical weapons produced prior to 1946. So, unless these 500 Sarin bombs were made before 1946, the CWC doesn't support your argument that they were "old munitions" at all.
 
Honestly, I think you're the one playing with semantics. The point isn't really whether one can justify calling the degraded materials "WMD" or not. The point is whether those (degraded) munitions posed any sort of credible, immediate threat at the time of the invasion.

No, this us your point, and it's invalid. If Iraq legitimately posed an immediate threat to American citizens via a Sarin bomb attack, we would have never invaded the country, we would have engaged in diplomatic talks, like we do with China and the former Soviet Union, and any other country that poses an immediate and direct threat to us. If we are vulnerable to an attack of mass destruction from our enemy, we don't go barging into their country, and wisely so. But you are correct, this is what Pinheads deemed as "the point" a long time ago, and simply tuned out all other debate on the matter. You are trying to argue that the only way it was legitimate for us to invade, is if they posed an immediate direct threat, and I am saying, that is essentially the only way we wouldn't have invaded.

You parsed what president Bush said, when he articulated that "we can't wait for the threat to become imminent" you understood him to say, the threat was imminent now, and we have to act. As I said in one of the other dozen Dixie obsession threads, the war was never about the immediate threat posed by Saddam Hussein.

In this discussion, there are two distinctly different criteria being used to define a WMD. One is, a naive and fundamentally stupid and simplistic notion that only things that are presently capable of causing mass destruction used as a weapon, are WMD's. The other, is a more well-reasoned and fact-based opinion supported by the Chemical Weapons Convention, the GC, UN resolutions, and findings in international law, on what is to be considered a WMD. In the real world, we use the conventional findings of the various bodies who created the words we are using to begin with, not some whimsical opinion of an idiot on a message board who can't spell.

It is fundamentally insupportable to invade another nation, killing thousands of people, simply because that nation might possibly be a threat. Our policy at that time was allegedly clear. We were never to preemptively invade another nation unless that nation posed a grave and imminent threat to the United States. Without significant stockpiles of WMD and the clear intent to use them, Saddam Hussen could not possible pose such an imminent threat

You are incorrect, our policy under the Bush Doctrine, is to take preemptive action to prevent an imminent threat. It has never been the foreign policy of the US, to take military action against an immediate and pending threat of significant reprisal, it's always been the policy to negotiate. With Liberals, it's always been the policy to give them anything they ever demand and never consider a military alternative.
 
Hey retard? What the fuck do you expect it to say? "We hereby classify Sarin bombs as weapons of mass destruction!" If you are looking for something like that, it isn't there, and that's not what I said. Sarin was deemed a chemical weapon by the CWC, which did indeed indicate what constituted a weapon of mass destruction and distinguished it from other chemicals that weren't. Not only this, but it also defined what substances were considered "precursors" and banned their production as well. The United Nations refrenced the CWC in UNR678, and established it as the criteria used by the UN to determine what a WMD is.... thus, "classifying" Sarin as a WMD.

Oh, by the way, the CWC did not ban bleach.


Thats what you claimed it said!
 
Dix owned again!

Finally he admits it does not classify Seirn as a WMD... Now back to these degraded munitions Bush does not even call WMD!
 
Sarin, also known by its NATO designation of GB (O-Isopropyl methylphosphonofluoridate) is an extremely toxic substance whose sole application is as a nerve agent. As a chemical weapon, it is classified as a weapon of mass destruction by the United Nations according to UN Resolution 687, and its production and stockpiling was outlawed by the Chemical Weapons Convention of 1993.

If you can't stand the bite...don't play with the big dogs....

Next will come the line...it all depends on what the meaning of 'is' is...

Jarrod the Joke...
 
Honestly, I think you're the one playing with semantics. The point isn't really whether one can justify calling the degraded materials "WMD" or not. The point is whether those (degraded) munitions posed any sort of credible, immediate threat at the time of the invasion.

Reasonable enough, but the best evidence available strongly suggests that the stockpiles of prohibited weapons were all or almost all destroyed shortly after the first Gulf War. If I recall correctly, the very last important munitions were destroyed by 1998. The documentation for disposal was not entirely ironclad but the U.N. had, at the time of the invasion, a mechanism and process in place to verify the documentation.

The invasion has not increased the likelyhood that we will ever know exactly when and where all of the stockpiles were disposed. Indeed, it has arguably lessened those chances by destroying evidence and killing witnesses.
The point is not that he was no threat at all. Any nation is a threat, if you reall want to get down to it. Canada is a threat. Mexico is a threat. Jamaica is a threat. It's just not much of one.

Saddam was neither an immediate nor a particularly grave threat to the United States. Many other nations were, at that time, far more credible threats. Notably, North Korea.It is fundamentally insupportable to invade another nation, killing thousands of people, simply because that nation might possibly be a threat. Our policy at that time was allegedly clear. We were never to preemptively invade another nation unless that nation posed a grave and imminent threat to the United States. Without significant stockpiles of WMD and the clear intent to use them, Saddam Hussen could not possible pose such an imminent threat

My dear friend, Ornot, would you show me anywhere in my post that I said it was justifiable to attack Iraq? You can't find it because I never once stated that. Nor was I attempting to justify it. I was simply commenting on the lie that he was not a threat.

Immie
 
Now that you OWN this dipstick Dixie...what the hell will you do with him..???


I have a collection of pinhead ass on my wall already, Jarhead's not a trophy kill, he's a sympathy case. Prissy as well... they are both retards pretending to be somebody, and for some reason, have an obsession with me. I would ask rob what I should do about it, but I've heard his dates puke at the prospects of going home with him, so he probably doesn't have that problem... Maybe I should get Darla's advice?
:cof1:
 
Sarin, also known by its NATO designation of GB (O-Isopropyl methylphosphonofluoridate) is an extremely toxic substance whose sole application is as a nerve agent. As a chemical weapon, it is classified as a weapon of mass destruction by the United Nations according to UN Resolution 687, and its production and stockpiling was outlawed by the Chemical Weapons Convention of 1993.

If you can't stand the bite...don't play with the big dogs....

Next will come the line...it all depends on what the meaning of 'is' is...

Jarrod the Joke...

Because you or someone else says it, that makes it true? You guys have a lot to learn. WHere did the above statement come from? I read the entire Resolution 687 and it does NOT classify Sarin as a WMD.. Not anywhere, and NO amount of claiming so will make it say that Sarin is a WMD!

What idiotic consumers of information you fucking retards are!
 
My dear friend, Ornot, would you show me anywhere in my post that I said it was justifiable to attack Iraq? You can't find it because I never once stated that. Nor was I attempting to justify it. I was simply commenting on the lie that he was not a threat.

Immie

I think Ornot came close enough to say you claimed it was justifiable to attack Iraq. Apperantly on this board what you say does not have to really be true... You just have to kick enough dust up to make it seem true! :pke:
 
Because you or someone else says it, that makes it true? You guys have a lot to learn. WHere did the above statement come from? I read the entire Resolution 687 and it does NOT classify Sarin as a WMD.. Not anywhere, and NO amount of claiming so will make it say that Sarin is a WMD!

What idiotic consumers of information you fucking retards are!

LMAO! The text he posted, comes directly from Wikipedia, the Pinhead reference source of choice.

Doh!

And yes, 678 does classify Sarin as a WMD, because it defers to the findings of the CWC, and they classify Sarin as a WMD. You just don't know how to comprehend what you read, and you assume there has to be a direct statement in the UN resolution, proclaiming Sarin a WMD, and that is not necessary since it has already been done by a smarter group of experts, which the UN agree with.
 
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