Dixie, what seperates what McVeigh wanted from what you want...?

There's nobody that I know of who is against health care. That is why the call is to replace the current debacle before most of it comes into e and tffect.

I don't know anyone who is against health care. We want it, but BO's plan is a monstrosity. I think every American citizen should have health care and those who have applied or people who want to become an American citizen, only.
 
I would also like to see the 'examples' of people who have lost their homes due to unpaid medical bills.
(Excerpt)Sixty-two percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses, according to a nationwide study released today by the American Journal of Medicine. That's nearly 20 percentage points higher than that pool of respondents reported were connected to medical costs in 2001. (End) http://voices.washingtonpost.com/health-care-reform/2009/06/new_study_shows_medical_bills.html

The Obamacare system will destroy the quality and accessibility of medical care. It will also decrease the number of practicing physicians, it has already started doing this, and the bill hasn't even really gone into effect yet!

Let's see some statistics to back up that absurd claim.

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The "pay or suffer" plan. The "let's try to take their house before they get well" plan. The "let's see if we can bankrupt the person before they die" plan.

THOSE!

BTW... If there are people who are suffering because they can't pay, we should publicly educate them about Medicaid. A government program to provide medical care to people who can't afford it, so they don't have to suffer if they can't pay.

I would also like to see the 'examples' of people who have lost their homes due to unpaid medical bills. I've never known of such a case, most people find a way to stay in their homes, regardless of how much the medical bill is. Bankruptcy is also very rare for people who only have outstanding medical debts, the courts are very understanding about health care needs and medical emergencies, and they are typically on the side of the debtor. I'm not saying it doesn't ever happen, it's just very rare, and usually there are other mitigating factors involved, it's not just poor Harry who couldn't pay his doctor bill! More like, poor Harry who couldn't pay his doctor bill, but could afford to go to Vegas and drop $20 grand on gambling.

What you are doing is using emotionalism to play on people's feelings... all these poor people who are being done an injustice by the current system! Only, we have passed all kinds of laws to protect the poor, to make sure they get proper medical attention, even if they can't pay. We've funded State Health Clinics to provide free medical care for the poor, and we've passed Indigent Care Laws in every state, to ensure those without money can still be treated in an emergency. We have created safety net after safety net, to protect the people who you want to use as an emotional example, and you just go right on with the emotionalism anyway, as if you want to completely ignore what has been done so far!

The Obamacare system will destroy the quality and accessibility of medical care. It will also decrease the number of practicing physicians, it has already started doing this, and the bill hasn't even really gone into effect yet! You're going to quickly have a situation where there are far more people demanding health care and far fewer people to provide it. What do you think is going to happen in that environment? The only way we can handle it, is RATIONING of health care! Having a government entity decide whether you actually NEED the medical care you want. When that situation actually starts becoming a reality, I suspect you will hear plenty of outcry, and there is no answer or solution to the problem then. It's too late to "revert" because you've destroyed the old system, and there is nothing to go back to.

Like I said before, it is unfortunate that you will never see all of this happen, because in 2013, the Republican president will sign a repeal of Obamacare, stopping this insanity in it's tracks. Of course, we'll have to endure you're continued whining and lying about this phantom problem, but hopefully America will have learned it's lesson, and for the rest of your miserable life, will never elect another Socialist Marxist as President of the United States!
 
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There's nobody that I know of who is against health care. That is why the call is to replace the current debacle before most of it comes into effect.

That's what can be worked on now. The idea is if no solution can be found something is going to change anyway. It gives the legislators some incentive to bargain. Prior to the bill there was no incentive. The Repubs just kept saying, "No". Now the clock is ticking.
 
I would also like to see the 'examples' of people who have lost their homes due to unpaid medical bills.
(Excerpt)Sixty-two percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses, according to a nationwide study released today by the American Journal of Medicine. That's nearly 20 percentage points higher than that pool of respondents reported were connected to medical costs in 2001. (End) http://voices.washingtonpost.com/health-care-reform/2009/06/new_study_shows_medical_bills.html

But how many of that 62% had other mitigating financial factors? I seriously doubt all their finances were in order with the exception of an unpaid medical bill. In fact, I would be willing to bet, the vast majority of those people would have had to file bankruptcy regardless of the unpaid medical bill. Generally speaking, if someone is having enough financial difficulty paying their bills to warrant considering bankruptcy, if they have ever had ANY medical bill, it was most likely not paid. It's like a statistic that says 98% of all homeless people don't own a car or TV!

Let's see some statistics to back up that absurd claim.

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http://www.investors.com/newsandanalysis/article.aspx?id=506199

Ther'ya go!

They have already begun the exodus.
 
I'm sorry, when did we start asking the fox how the henhouse should be guarded? American Journal of medicine/American Journal of thieves.
 
Originally Posted by Dixie

"Let me tell you little Socialist punks something... If you think America is going to sit back and let the chicanery that's happening in Washington continue unabated, you've got another thing coming. People are MAD... MAD AS HELL over this, and the continued attitude of this Congress, and it's arrogant assumption that it doesn't have to listen to the people who elected it! You want to violate the Constitutional rights of half of America or more, and think you can pull that off, you fucking go for it punk!

You'll be put down like the rabid animals you are, if that is the case!

There are a LOT of people out here, FED UP! Disgusted with YOU and your partisan political bullshit! We are growing sick and tired of being called "TEABAGGERS" and denigrated personally for believing in God or owning a Gun or Pickup truck! Mostly, we are sick of you trying to seize control of power to implement outright Marxist Socialism on America against their will! Americans will not stand for this shit! I promise you that!

I am not going to tell you when that time is coming, you will know a second after the bullet penetrates your empty skull!

But this country is nearing that tipping point, and you fuckwits better either realize that or get your affairs in order."!


that was freaking awesome!!

Pure comedy gold, mate!
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Translation: the little dope doesn't have the brains or the stones to honestly address what was put to him...or to try and logically refute my answers to what he did post. Instead, he demonstrates a lack of creativity by mimicking my response style to regurgitate his blowhard dodge. Like I said folks, when properly challenged, Conferderate flag waving, neocon clowns like Dixie can't debate they're way out of a teabag, as the chronology of this thread shows. So until he grows a pair and debates honestly, I'll leave him to peddle his BS to satisfy his ego.

And yet another repeat of the previous post... it is a stunning illness!

And our Confederacy defending, lying POS that is Dixie just can't honestly deal with a fair, logical and fact based challenge.
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=638281&postcount=18

He's done folks....watch him go.
 
Smiling Indeed!

mcveigh-smiling.jpg
 
But how many of that 62% had other mitigating financial factors? I seriously doubt all their finances were in order with the exception of an unpaid medical bill. In fact, I would be willing to bet, the vast majority of those people would have had to file bankruptcy regardless of the unpaid medical bill. Generally speaking, if someone is having enough financial difficulty paying their bills to warrant considering bankruptcy, if they have ever had ANY medical bill, it was most likely not paid. It's like a statistic that says 98% of all homeless people don't own a car or TV!

http://www.investors.com/newsandanalysis/article.aspx?id=506199

Ther'ya go!

They have already begun the exodus.

The first paragraph on that link reads, "Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found."

Retiring? Maybe. Shutting down? Not a chance. What is the doctor going to do? Work at McDonalds?

Nothing but scare tactics. I'm surprised they didn't say they'd move to Cuba!:rofl:
 
The first paragraph on that link reads, "Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found."

Retiring? Maybe. Shutting down? Not a chance. What is the doctor going to do? Work at McDonalds?

Nothing but scare tactics. I'm surprised they didn't say they'd move to Cuba!:rofl:

In the managerial program at Mickey D's, the doc might actually make more than under Obamacare!

Thousands of doctors have already closed up shop, others are scaling down and going to an all-cash business, accepting NO insurance. This is already beginning to happen, and the measures of Obamacare have not even started yet! It's not a 'scare tactic' ...who the fuck is being scared? The bill has been passed into law already, no need to scare folks now! This is reality, this is what is happening in the real world, where the rest of us live! I realize things aren't like this in your fantasy world, where people are never sick, and if they are, they can get free medical care!
 
In the managerial program at Mickey D's, the doc might actually make more than under Obamacare!

Thousands of doctors have already closed up shop, others are scaling down and going to an all-cash business, accepting NO insurance. This is already beginning to happen, and the measures of Obamacare have not even started yet! It's not a 'scare tactic' ...who the fuck is being scared? The bill has been passed into law already, no need to scare folks now! This is reality, this is what is happening in the real world, where the rest of us live! I realize things aren't like this in your fantasy world, where people are never sick, and if they are, they can get free medical care!

Well, I have news for those doctors. As the baby boomers retire and go on Medicare they'll loose a bulk of their patients.

As for the reality let them cut back or go out of business. Obvious they're more interested in their wallet than they are in taking care of people. We don't need that type of doctor. Dozens of countries have government plans and guess what? They still have doctors!

If a critical shortage of doctors becomes evident maybe it will result in lower medical school costs or government grants for people who are truly interested in helping the ill. It's time to get rid of the ones who are only there to pad their pockets.
 
Well, I have news for those doctors. As the baby boomers retire and go on Medicare they'll loose a bulk of their patients.

As for the reality let them cut back or go out of business. Obvious they're more interested in their wallet than they are in taking care of people. We don't need that type of doctor. Dozens of countries have government plans and guess what? They still have doctors!

If a critical shortage of doctors becomes evident maybe it will result in lower medical school costs or government grants for people who are truly interested in helping the ill. It's time to get rid of the ones who are only there to pad their pockets.

If there is a shortage of doctors how will that cause medical school costs to go down? We (Americans, not you) have a shortage of scientists and engineers right now but you don't see Universities raising the rates of business schools while lowering the costs of science and engineering.

And news flash for you there aren't that many truly ideolistic (sp) people in the world that you can just say if making money is also important to you then you shouldn't be a doctor.
 
If there is a shortage of doctors how will that cause medical school costs to go down? We (Americans, not you) have a shortage of scientists and engineers right now but you don't see Universities raising the rates of business schools while lowering the costs of science and engineering.

If the government believes there is a shortage of scientists and engineers they can subsidize the cost for training.

And news flash for you there aren't that many truly idealistic people in the world that you can just say if making money is also important to you then you shouldn't be a doctor.

There's a difference between making money and being greedy. I'm sure there are a lot of people interested in becoming a doctor but don't have the money for university. If the government subsidizes their training an arrangement can be made for them to supply their services for medicare patients in exchange.

The strange thing about all this....shortage of doctors, poor medical care, government can't afford it....is that dozens of countries have found solutions sufficient enough for the citizens to insist on keeping their government plan. It's not a matter of it being impossible to do. It's just that some people don't want it to happen.
 
Well, I have news for those doctors. As the baby boomers retire and go on Medicare they'll loose a bulk of their patients.

As for the reality let them cut back or go out of business. Obvious they're more interested in their wallet than they are in taking care of people. We don't need that type of doctor. Dozens of countries have government plans and guess what? They still have doctors!

If a critical shortage of doctors becomes evident maybe it will result in lower medical school costs or government grants for people who are truly interested in helping the ill. It's time to get rid of the ones who are only there to pad their pockets.

down with capitalism, right? :cof1:
 
Well, I have news for those doctors. As the baby boomers retire and go on Medicare they'll loose a bulk of their patients.

Uhm, who do you think is providing health care to Medicare recipients? Fairies? Gnomes? The same doctors who care for the rest of us, also care for Medicare patients, and Medicaid patients too! And this is why many of them are leaving their practices, they know what is coming now that we've converted the entire nation to Medicare and Medicaid! On average, a doctor gets $9 for a routine exam of a Medicare/Medicaid patient. If that was all they could ever make on any patient, it just wouldn't be worth the trouble.

As for the reality let them cut back or go out of business. Obvious they're more interested in their wallet than they are in taking care of people. We don't need that type of doctor. Dozens of countries have government plans and guess what? They still have doctors!

No, you don't understand the math. We are going to need MORE doctors...of ANY type! We are adding 30 million people to the system, and it was already stretched to the max before all of this! Now you have nearly half the doctors leaving the system, and they ain't coming back. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out there will be a severe shortage.

And I am so sick of your continued point about what "other countries" do! Are those countries OUR country? NO! So, the examples are invalid on that basis alone! It's like telling the Dallas Cowboys they only need to practice once a week, because Bugtussle High School only practices once a week, and their fans still support the team! It's just a lame and ignorant comparison.

If a critical shortage of doctors becomes evident maybe it will result in lower medical school costs or government grants for people who are truly interested in helping the ill. It's time to get rid of the ones who are only there to pad their pockets.

Ah yes, of course, the solution as always is to have Government step in and do something! Now we are going to have to bribe doctors to be a part of your ridiculous health care system, at the expense of the taxpayer?

I've got news for you... These heartwarming stories you see movies made about, where the selfless doctor travels to Africa to treat AIDS patients for free... well, those are RARE cases, and RARE individuals! That is why they make movies about their story! Most doctors are just like everyone else, they want to make as much money as they can for the hard work and effort they put in to becoming a qualified doctor! It's not "all about the money" but they do expect and desire the money they deserve for the job they do. You are yammering out of both sides of your mouth here... You say if there is a shortage, we can dangle a government carrot out there for the docs, but if they don't like the carrot, they can get lost! Problem is, you have 30 million more people in the waiting room, expecting their free Obamacare! What are you going to do? Oh, I know.... let's send them to OTHER COUNTRIES!
 
Dozens of countries have government plans and guess what? They still have doctors!

I've still got steam coming out of my ears over this idiotic comment! Yes, other countries have government health care and still have doctors, but the BEST of the BEST are here in the good old US of A! Why do you suppose that's the case? Do Asian doctors just enjoy helping people so much, they had to come to America? Why didn't they stay at home and help their own people? Could it possibly be, they make considerably MORE money in the USA practicing medicine? Could it be, the system we have attracts the best and brightest because it rewards them adequately? Nahhh... I'm sure you'll say they just like living in America, and they would be perfectly fine with making the same money as they would if they lived in their own countries, with their own families and friends, under the government-run system... right?
 
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